.375 H&H a Learning Calibre

[Greenbear]

Having bought a rifle in the wonderful above calibre I have been amazed at how much my life has been enriched with so much information and learned lectures.

 

Things like

 

'What the f**k do you want one of those for'

'a .243 is the only rifle you will ever need'

'I've dropped red stgs on the spot at 150 yards with my 22.250'

 

people I have been great friends suddenly feel the need to lecture me on how their own calibre is really best and I am not to use such a large calibre around them.

 

We all feel the police are down on shooters, we feel they insist we can't have what we want - Try getting stalking land for a .375 H&H! It is out there but pro stalkers all feel the need to tell me that the calibre they use is the best - so far thats a .243, 6mm br, 6.5x55, .308, .270, 30.06, 300 win mag and its these people that impose calibre limits to the land they shoot, I shoot 4 main areas in the UK, one syndicate insists on a .30cal max, one area the guy insist its far too big, one I am covered for any calibre and the other didn't want to know.

 

I have just heard of a .30 cal area being dubious for a .300 win mag is that not a .30cal?

 

Any way back to my new baby, it will shoot a 220g head at 2900fps just like a few other calibres, it kills the deer I point it at - so why are people so keen to do the police forces bidding and continue to reduce calibres - because thats exactly what they are doing. The UK has a law defining minimum calibre only there is no maximim calibre for deer stalking in the UK. The home office produces guidlines but none are law.

 

I am pleased to add there are a few exceptionally helpful people I have found over the last few weeks

 

Now before the flack starts coming in I am going to duck

 

As for meat damage I have seen a roe shot to bits by a .243 and a red stopped very cleanly with a .300 win mag. I am not advocating its an ideal calibre but is a very flexible and reqarding calibre to shoot.

[Guest Tiff]

I gave up in the end getting my .338 Re-Cleared on my open ticket.....It got passed initially after 2 months of 'polite discussion'. Then 23 dead deer later I was informed I had to return my certificate, since it was a hazard to aircraft flying under 3,000 ft!!! 5 months with BASC behind me and multiple emails going to near the top of the HO department the answer came back as a NO. Instead they did a face saving exercise and issue me with a 30-338 - claiming it was 'considerably less dangerous'!!! I tried to explain that a 240 grain .30 bullet at 3,000 fps has better ballistics than a 300 grain .338 bullet at 2750. Had to give up in the end! However if I hunt with it abroad in Canada next year, it will become safe to use in the UK! Work that one out for me?

[mildot]

Congrats on getting your 375H&H, very good cal.

 

They are only jealeous that you have that cal and they havent!

 

Go forth and enjoy the good times!

[dogfox]

Greenbear

I am with you all the way.If you want to shoot deer with a .375 carry on. I am pissed off with the do gooders in the shooting world who would want to stop others shooters from using something different.

 

I would love to shot vermin and deer with my longbarrel pistol but the so called shooting organizaition will not back me. Why?

 

If it is safe and humane why worry.

 

 

Dogfox

[PeteL]

Greenbear,

Well done, you've got one of the best big game calibres in existence. With a 200 or 225 gn bullet, it will be deadly on big reds and pigs. You don't need all that power, of course, but if you want to, why shouldn't you - the Law doesn't preclude it, only Chief Constables. Besides, you're now tooled up for an African Safari - so when are you going?.

Peter

[Redfox]

I agree I had one and it was a great cal, reds dont run off over the hill after Mr 375 270gr has introduced himself and meat damage is less than the 243 or 270 as others have said. I wouldnt want to shoot 50rds at the bench with it though, you definitely start to lose interest. but although not a one holer it shoots pretty well all the bullets to much the same point of aim which is unusual but very handy, everybody should have one in the cabinet

Redfox

[Greenbear]

Thanks for the kind comments on top of that I was planning a south Africa trip for 2010

 

That was before going bankrupt ha ha

[Vermincinerator]

There seem to be a lot of imformed shooters who insist on shooting the minimum calibre and bullet weight legally allowed for deer.

243 is a fine calibre but i would not want to go after a big red stag with one, for me a 30-06 with 180 bullets would be more suitable.

If a man feels the need to step up to the task armed with a 375 H&H then thats his choice and so be it.

People need to be more concerned with unsuitable calibres.

In some African countries the 375H&H is regarded as the minimum dangerous game calibre but in many there is a .400 cal minumum, i know which way i would going.

You can never be overgunned or have overkill but you can most certainly be undergunned

 

Ian

[njc110381]

Mate, don't worry about it! It's a pretty big gun for Deer so you've got to expect that sort of reaction sometimes. I haven't got any UK land to shoot mine on yet, but then I haven't been trying so I'm not worried yet either.

 

I have to say my rifle really did make a big hole in the Deer I shot with it, and it wasn't a small Deer either. I think it may have been a bad bullet choice though because it looked like it fragmented before exit. All I can suggest is that you choose your load carefully!

 

One last thing......6.5x55 is a far better Deer calibre

[grahamfarmer]

hi greenbear,

 

well i hope you have fun with your deer gun why shouldnt you it does just what everyone should aim to do that is to take the quarry with the minium of distress and suffering.

 

we all seem to be at the mercy of our respective firearms departments some are better than others as we all know. bit disturbed at the comments that your gun is dangerous to planes under 3000 ft if thats a yardstick there using even 20cal would reach that ceiling .

 

i had a similar problem crop up when i put in for my 308. as the enquiry officer that came couldnt see why i wanted something that big for deer and he would let me have a 270 as a compermise until i showed him some caliber and velocity charts on the internet he didnt relise that the 270 had faster and further balistics with similar weight bullets or what the parent case was to start with and when i showed him the photo of a wildboar i had shot with my 223 imedetatily a 308 was ok .

 

then to cap it off when the ticket came through it was also cleared for foxes and vermin and that was 4 yrs ago befor they altered the rules .

 

since then and a few further dealings with my local firearms office i am starting to ask for certain people as they are shooters them selves and know their stuff and can use some discretion and common sense.

 

sadly it seems a lot of these enquiry officers are civilians and not firearms trained it would be nice to get some of these people out on a range for a day to educate them a little but at the end of the day its only a job to them and they only use the rules and guidelines as they need to to do the job.

 

well we can all live in hope i surpose but at the end of the day we can only work with them .

 

 

graham.

[Vermincinerator]

With all due respect guys, i keep on reading things like; " My FEO wont let me have".......or "I asked for a..... and my FEO said no."

I have sad this before and i am going to say it again, Your FEO does not have the authority to refuse your application requests

In your case Graham, even though it worked out for you, your FEO had no right to say no to a 308 and then suggest a 270, its not his decision.

 

Because of this i think it would be a great idea if FEO's had no firearms knowledge at all but only got training on how to administer their jobs, that way there would be none of this bull$hit "you cant have this" and "you wont get that"

Many shooters are not prepared to stand their ground with their FEO's but they need too to bring these people down a peg or two.

If you want to apply for a 375 H&H for red deer stags and you feel the need to go through your FEO, its his duty to submit your application.

 

This is why i do all my FAC correspondance directly with my licensing office, then if the manager thinks i need a visit from the FEO i get one.

I have only ever had the FEO out on one occasion for a variation (even though i have done loads) and once for sporting conditions to be added, otherwise in the last 25 years its only been for renewals, which is the way i like and the way it should be.

 

Ian.

[menial 1]

I wasn't going to post on this thread but I feel I must. Congrats to Greenbear on his grant for the calibre of his choice, in Northants I feel he'd struggle to get that cal. granted.

It seems sometimes that some people feel that .243 is some sort of peashooter where deer are concerned. I'd like to be able to comment on shooting large calibres but till now my experience is limited to various .22 centrefires, .243, .308, 7x57, 25 06,.270 so I don't feel qualified to knock larger cals. as I've never regularly used them. However my point is this, how many really know the trajectory of these larger rounds to the extent that if they were presented with a shot that had to be taken reasonably swiftly that was between 200-300yds, no rangefinder, no dialling just get the shot away in the time available. I've seen some piss poor shot placements from some that advocate magnum calibres for deer. Lighter cals. have a decent trajectory and plenty of downrange power for all deer species in the UK with correct shot placement, so I'm happier with my inherently accurate .243 for the longer shots we often find ourselves having to take as the season comes towards the end and we have fewer animals left on our ground.

I've been running a .308 exclusively on our fallow this season and can't find any advantages so far.

I've dropped hundreds of deer with .243, up to and including red stag, I've never felt undergunned, so try and understand that not everybody is of the opinion that only large cals. for large deer can possibly be correct, it's all about confidence, experience and above all good shot placement.

I wonder sometimes that some who deride the smaller caibres ever owned or shot very much with one, to the extent that they were confident in what it could or could not achieve. I could go on but I feel I'd be wasting my time.

Pete.

[Guest northernchris]

I am with Pete on this one.

 

I have shot a couple of deer over my shooting life owned .300 Win mags down through .270,6.5 x 55,6.5x54MS,.243Win,.22-250,.222 etc but still kept going back to the old performers like .243 and 6.5 never felt the extra walop put more deer on the pony or in the back of the Argo,but then again i was only earning a living from doing it.A few on here have seen me throw lead about to good affect,and most important bit is tickling the beast in the right place.

And before everyone jumps on me saying more power is better incase of a wayward shot,a shot through the lower jaw or through the gut with a bigger round makes no differance at all,it will still require another round or pricking in the back of the head.

[Vermincinerator]

"You don't need a sledge hammer to crack walnuts" on the other hand. "you ain't gonna break concrete with a mallet."

 

Ian.

[Vermincinerator]

Pete,

You hit the nail right on the head buddy with "Confidence"

If the shooter feels more confident with a bigger calibre, that can only be a good thing.

I think we can all agree that a guys calibre choice is his business and who are we to dissagree.

However a bad shot is another matter and no size of bullet will make up for that.

 

Ian

[Guest northernchris]

Ian those deer you have over there must be the "Urban concrete type " very rare indeed

[Vermincinerator]

Its the concrete elephants at one of the kiddies playgrounds that concern me

 

Ian.

[njc110381]

Pete, you have a lot of good points there. You haven't missed much by not shooting the big magnum calibres, they boom and kick just like the smaller ones. I can only comment on my limited experience, but a light sporter .270 kicks just as hard if not harder than my BRNO .375H&H! They give you a good shove, but for some reason I find the sharp recoil of a .270 much more uncomfortable. As a rough guide the trajectory of the .375H&H is about the same as a .270, so not too hard to judge.

 

I know a lot of people that are happy with their .243s. I think it's a little light but then it's all in my head (that confidence thing again). I much prefer the slower but heavier 6.5x55, which I think is in about the same league in muzzle energy?

 

On the subject of the 200-300 yard shot, no rangefinder etc. I'd have to leave it with all of my rifles. Although I have a lot of good info in my head that I've picked up on here I'm still very new to fullbore shooting. I lack the confidence to take a long shot because I haven't had the experience yet. It's almost sad that even with the big long list of calibres in my signature, I rarely push past 120 yards even with my .223 on the bunnies! Until I've had more range time I'll stick to the 100ish yard or less shots on Deer. I'm much more happy working on a good stalk and letting fly from 50 yards away, because I'm 100% confident of a good hit. If the Deer spots me and legs it then it's unhurt and there for the next time I get a chance to outwit it. If it's too smart for me, someone else can have it

[Greenbear]

Hi Guys,

 

just to get this back on track

 

Pete, Ian and Chris, please do not take my initial thread as derisory about all the other calibres, that was certainly not my intention, I use a .308 for my stalking and it does the job extremely well. I had and used a Sako in .243 and just could not miss with the rifle, one of my greatest regrets selling that one.

 

I was using examples of comments I have heard since owing my .375. I am a great advocate of use what you feel comfortable with, if thats a .243, 6.5, .270 or 30.06 so be it, its your rifle and as the guys have mentioned you must be comfortable with it.

 

I have shot deer with a .223 - I really like this calibre

I have shot deer a .243 a very nice round

I have shot deer with a .308 - in my own personal opnion one of the greatest all rounders

I have shot deer with a .300 Win Mag - and no there was no more meet damage than any other of my other calibres

 

The point I was trying to get across is that stalkers/land owners are doing the job our FEO's want them to do but implementing large calibre restrictions, if our colleagues/fellow stalkers are imposing calibre restrictions the police are more the happier and this WILL lead to a maximum calibre ruling before long

 

I am trying to state that as we are all different and we all like our individual calibres we must not dissuade the use of certain calibres because we personally do not like them.

 

Pete - I am more than happy to discuss balistic trajectory of any of the calibrs that I shoot, I know where all my rounds will go out as far as 300 yards, outside of that I have never shot due to my limitations. I take great care in deciding what and how I load each and every round, these are regularly checked at 50/100/200 yards at an indoor range. As mentioned I am not deriding small calibres I adore my .223 and have used it for deer, I develop each load for accuracy over power so I am not trying to get a .223 to act like a .243 etc.

 

I also agree witht the comments on bad shot placement, a deer shot in the gut with a .375 is still a gut shot deer and something we all aim to avoid.

 

Concrete elephants sadly dont have any of them but there is a school locally with three bronze bears in the front yard............. They do look a bit mean though

[Redfox]

I am a firm believer in choice and just because it is bigger than what is considered the norm , matters not. The only thing with larger heavier bullets is to be aware of safety / backstops, a straw bale end on will not restrain a heavy projectile whereas the smaller lighter ones are normally stopped inside it, but those considerations exist for all our shooting whatever the caliber. I hope you enjoy it and have plenty of success.

Redfox

PS the trophy fees for low flying aircraft are well out of my pocket

[snap_shot]

I am a firm believer in choice and just because it is bigger than what is considered the norm , matters not. The only thing with larger heavier bullets is to be aware of safety / backstops, a straw bale end on will not restrain a heavy projectile whereas the smaller lighter ones are normally stopped inside it, but those considerations exist for all our shooting whatever the caliber. I hope you enjoy it and have plenty of success.

Redfox

PS the trophy fees for low flying aircraft are well out of my pocket

 

i don't think there to bad for a cessna, but the 747 is well outa my pocket.............

great thread lads...........

[njc110381]

I think that's the main reason for people disliking the cannons some of us choose to buy. The bullets really do take some stopping! That said I wouldn't use a straw bale as a backstop when using my bigger rifles, as I'm sure none of us would. Surely common sense should be taken into account? If we're safe with a .308, we are just as safe with a .460 weatherby. Both will bite you if you try to catch the round in your teeth! We live on a small island with a very high population. Maybe it is right that the guidelines don't agree that Deer are a good enough reason to grant a .375? It's not a long range gun, so really there is little use for one here. I only want to shoot mine at live quarry in the UK to refresh my familiarity with the gun and if I think I've been abroad for the last time I will sell it. I will still pick up my 6.5x55 for the majority of the Deer I shoot, but it's nice to have the choice while the .375 is with me.

[Ronin]

If you are deemed as safe with ANY centerfire (or rimfire) IMHO you should be able to get any calibre....

 

 

One licence, should cover any firearm.

 

 

Just my 2p

[Greenbear]

bloody ell lads I cant hit a deer when it's stood still - them aeroplanes fly just a tad too quick for my liking

[njc110381]

It is pretty unlikely a civilian .338lap is going to bring down a plane isn't it. Even aiming at it you'd be hard pushed to hit it. I guess it's just an example of our "just in case" attitude these days? Firearms are a really tightly controlled item, we'll all just have to get used to that.

 

I do support Ronins comment though. We should have a firearm permit which allows us to buy almost anything without restrictions. I like the Canadian rules-unrestricted, restricted and prohibited. The unrestricted certificate allows the holder to buy any number of rifles up to .50 if I remember correctly, and the ammo is not restricted at all.

 

I think the best way for the UK as we are a smaller place would be to allow a certificate holder to buy anything up to the maximum calibre his best piece of land is cleared for. It would make life much more simple, but keep things controlled to stop idiots from pushing their luck and shooting bunnies with .50BMGs on ten acre permissions.