130 Bergers and 6.5x47

[Elwood]

Is it possible/practical to use Berger 130 VLD bullets in a 6.5x47 chambered for 123 Scenars?

[Alycidon]

I dont have a rifle in that caliber but I cant see why not, they will probably need to be seated further back into the case so powder capacity is reduced.

 

A possable problem is twist rate, Lapua dont show twist rates that I can see on their site. Berger say 1 in 9 for a 120 grain and 1 in 10 for a 130 grain.

 

I cant see much benifit in using the 130s unless you got them for nothing,

 

A

[Elwood]

A, I just assumed that the Berger's would have a better BC than the 123 Scenars.

After a quick search they do, the 130 Berger is .595 and the 123 Scenar is .547, so now my question is the .047 BC gain worth it other the lower powder capacity? I'm thinking probably not but would like an educated opinion.

 

Twist is 1-8

[Ronin]

The short answer is yes,

 

 

the long answer is yes, I think so, I have been trying to get some Norma 130 g bullets for a while which are the equal or better of the Bergers.

 

I cannot see why a rifle throated for 123g Scenars will not be able to accomodate a bullet 7grains heavier, the ogive positions I would estimate will be similar, but the Bergers will be longer and "pointier".

 

If your rifle has been throated with a similar chamber reamer to my own and I specced a 123g throated reamer, I would think that there would be oodles of space left to seat the longer Bergers in an AICS mag

 

(Just measured the OAL of my 123g load - 2.770", there is at least 2.885" available in AICS before you remove the insert and .100" extra after.

 

 

My own 47 has the 123's seated at the base of the neck and doesnt impede into normal powder space (although I am running slight "crush" loads) as I use Varget as the power provider.

 

This article by Zac Smith may help: http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek084.html

[AHPP]

I was planning to ask this exact same question when I start reloading for my 123grain Scenar throated 6.5x47.

I got a bit of advice on it a while ago. Will dig around my inbox and report back.

[AHPP]

From the man building the rifle for me:

 

123 scenars, and 130 berger vld,s are two entirely differnt bullets, ogive wise, But you may be able to seat the vld,s far enough out to reach the lands.

 

So the length from base to ogive is shorter with the VLD than the Scenar.

[Elwood]

Andy any reason for using Varget? temperature stable and lot to lot consistency? Most of what I have read about the 6.5x47 tells me that RL15 is the powder of choice.

[londonhunter]

My limited experience with 6.5 x 47 stalisises 140 VLD better over 600 yards utilising 1. 8.5 twist. BC is only better by a 7mm 180 VLD on the commercial market unless Lutz from germany custom something for me.

 

I also have a 6 x 47 lapua and both case seems to like 4350

 

6.5 x 47 lapua 1 in 8.5 twist smallest SD node at or around 40.5 grain at 15 - 18 degrees centrigrade

 

when I shoot in southern Europe i.e. over 20 degrees + I have to back off 0.5 - 1.0 grain average MZ 3080 - 3150 fps

 

there are 03 version of reamers from Pacific Tools.

 

You really have to ask who ever chambered your barrel as to which version they bought.

 

My cousin in the states told me that there is a later version of the 6.5 x 47 reamer with a longer neck allowing more tension control resulting in high pressure but better stabilisation. This was developed for guys in the states using it for NBRS 600 + in open class.

 

With this reamer it seem to prefer 130 vld but the older version reamer prefer 123 scenar.

 

hope this helps

 

londonhunter

[Ronin]

It would help if I had a Berger 130 here to measure ...., but I dont.

 

 

The 123g Scenar I have in my paw, measures 1.297" (base to tip) and .653" from base to ogive.

 

My own reamer (it was custom made by PTG to MY spec) cuts the throat so that the bullet kisses the lands at 2.037" (base of case to Ogive)

 

So with the OAL length being 2.770" that means that there is about .200" free bore set on the reamer.

 

Without measuring a 130 Berger I cannot comment on the "shorter ogive" thought, but if the bullet is heavier, the extra weight has to be somewhere in the bullets make up - hasnt it GOT to be slightly bigger?

 

 

Why Varget?

 

 

well, I (we) tried RL15 and H4350, and they did give nice groups, but, whe n we tried Varget the groups shrank noticably - you may recall I put together two rifles at the same time in the calibre, they both shoot exceptionally well with the big V.

 

Velocity is 3000fps with 39g of Varget - this is warm, dont jump straight in as it may not suit your rifle - if one runs this load on QL its RED (just in)

 

 

ES is in single figures and upto now it is pretty reliable, not shot it anywhere hotter than 28 degrees in CZ earlier in the year - still stable then,,,,just.

 

My reamer ~ is 12767 and its a .291" nk

[Vermincinerator]

I have compared the 123 Scenar to the 130 Berger, and the Berger most definately does not have a shorter ogive, it is in fact longer due to the larger tangential ogive radius.

The ogive radis is usually created by multiplying an amont of bullet diametres, eg most of the SMK's which have a seven bullet diametre secant radius.

I do believe the 130grn Berger has a nine bullet diametre tangent radius, hence the longer slimmer ogive.

[Elwood]

Thanks for the info guys.

 

I need to make a correction in my earlier post, my 6.5x47 is a 1-8.5 twist not a 1-8 as previously posted.

 

It just so happens that I have two tubs of Varget, so I will try some loads with it.

[Ronin]

Ian

 

thanks for the comparison.

 

Ian

 

my mates barrel is a 1.85, my own is a 1.8, both shoot 123's as well as each other.

[Vermincinerator]

I texted one of my buddies last night and asked him how he was getting on with the Berger 130's i got for him.

His custom barrelled 6.5-284 has a 1-8.5 twist and his reply was "from the little work i have done with the 130 Bergers, the results have been poor"

 

Ian.

[6mmBR]

My 6.5x47 Lapua which has a 1 in 8.5 twist barrel didn't like the 130 VLD's but shoots superbly with Bergers 120 BTHPM.

Cheers

Dave

[Jerry May]

My 6.5x47 Lapua which has a 1 in 8.5 twist barrel didn't like the 130 VLD's but shoots superbly with Bergers 120 BTHPM.

Cheers

Dave

 

I shoot both 123g Lapua's and 130g Berger VLD's, the 123's I shoot out to 300 yards and the 130 VLD's I use out to 1000 yards. Both bullets shoot really well in my Pacnor 1-8" twist three groove barrel. The Berger VLD's are slightly better on windy days.

 

Jerry.