My 6.5 slot

[AHPP]

I've got a slot for a 6.5 on the way so can start thinking about the finer points of the rifle I want.

 

Target rifle only. It'll be used with a bipod and later on with all the prone benchrest jazz of the F-Class world.

 

So far I've only got a couple of things decided as certain:

Must wear a Bell and Carlson Tactical/Varmint stock - had a feel of a few and get on with them well.

Must have a super tasty single-stage trigger no lighter than 1lb. Jewell triggers seem to have the best name but I am open to landslide votes for others.

If it ends up having a Remington action it'll have to have a new bolt knob - I hate those flat factory ones!

The chunkiest and longest barrel I can sensibly get in the stock. This is very much not a rifle designed for carrying.

Floorplate or DBM (impressed with the SYSS kit I fondled earlier).

 

 

The calibre is where I need to make decisions but I think some of the decision would end up being made by the components.

 

What's a good bullet weight and what's a good twist rate for it?

Good calibre for that weight bullet (super-duper barrel burners are off the menu - I want something that will last).

 

I think I'm between two calibres:

6.5x55

.260

 

Good twist rate for the barrel?

Good compromise on length (it's got to fit in the car!)?

 

Where will action lengths and bolt-face sizes come into this? As far as I know, 6.5x55 and .260 differ in both respects.

Does any configuration lend itself more or less easily to rebarreling, other fettling etc?

 

I ask here because I want lots of different views on the matter but also unashamedly because I specifically want baldie's input (SYSS are near the top of the list of people who I would ask to build it).

 

 

 

Open to the floor.

[bruxie hill]

hi

heard a lot about the 6.5x284 1 mate has got it for a stalking rifle other a a target both love them to bits only burn barrels if you load them up to the top end

all thr best bruxie

[AHPP]

Thanks for the reply bruxie. Will bear in mind.

 

To add yet more confusion to my original two, how about 6.5x47?

[baldie]

Hello buddy.

I shot a 6.5x55 seriously, last year as a unique alpine, and was not that impressed with the cartridge, from a target point of view. Its over 100 years old, and was originally designed as a military round, at which it excells, also a cracking hunting round. there are much better ways of shoving a 139 grain bullet, with less bang, less powder, and from a short action. The old swede is long action, and requires a bigger bolt face [6thou' bigger than a .308 face ] off the top of my head. This means a std remmy is out, as they dont do one, and would mean either a custom bolt, or one opening out, and a sako extractor fitting.

There is actually just that thing sat in the shop at the mo...i wouldn,t want it, so i,m not gonna recommend it either.

 

You need to decide on what weight bullet you will use, because there are two great ways of doing it. If you want to use the 123 grain bullets, then my advice would be to go for the 6.5x47 lapua, i have one and it does literally everything, and mag feeds beautifully...std .308 bolt face, and short action, so can be built on owt.

 

If you want to shoot the heavier 139 grain bullets, which have an unbelievable bc, then the .260 rem, either std, or ackley improved is a better bet, as it has a larger case capacity. The 6.5 x47, whilst it can shoot the heavier bullets, wasn,t designed for it, and struggles. The magic figure you nead to attain is around 3000 fps, which can be achieved with either. The .260rem will mag feed just as well, and even if its been ackleyed...it just needs a modification in the magazines. .308 bolt face again, so any action basically.

 

Twist rates are simple in 6.5, you want either a 1 in 8", or a 1 in 8.5" either will stabilise both bullet weights.

 

The 6.5 x284 is also a good cartridge, but its a barrel burner, and will be non competitive after 1000 -1500 rounds.

[AHPP]

Hello buddy.

I shot a 6.5x55 seriously, last year as a unique alpine, and was not that impressed with the cartridge, from a target point of view. Its over 100 years old, and was originally designed as a military round, at which it excells, also a cracking hunting round. there are much better ways of shoving a 139 grain bullet, with less bang, less powder, and from a short action. The old swede is long action, and requires a bigger bolt face [6thou' bigger than a .308 face ] off the top of my head. This means a std remmy is out, as they dont do one, and would mean either a custom bolt, or one opening out, and a sako extractor fitting.

There is actually just that thing sat in the shop at the mo...i wouldn,t want it, so i,m not gonna recommend it either.

 

You need to decide on what weight bullet you will use, because there are two great ways of doing it. If you want to use the 123 grain bullets, then my advice would be to go for the 6.5x47 lapua, i have one and it does literally everything, and mag feeds beautifully...std .308 bolt face, and short action, so can be built on owt.

 

If you want to shoot the heavier 139 grain bullets, which have an unbelievable bc, then the .260 rem, either std, or ackley improved is a better bet, as it has a larger case capacity. The 6.5 x47, whilst it can shoot the heavier bullets, wasn,t designed for it, and struggles. The magic figure you nead to attain is around 3000 fps, which can be achieved with either. The .260rem will mag feed just as well, and even if its been ackleyed...it just needs a modification in the magazines. .308 bolt face again, so any action basically.

 

Twist rates are simple in 6.5, you want either a 1 in 8", or a 1 in 8.5" either will stabilise both bullet weights.

 

The 6.5 x284 is also a good cartridge, but its a barrel burner, and will be non competitive after 1000 -1500 rounds.

 

Ta for getting on the thread. Was hoping you'd drop in...

 

I'm getting more and more turned off to the 6.5x55. It may have pedigree (it can't have been doing anything too wrong to have stayed about this long) but that's very quickly becoming outweighed by practicality and simplicity as I'm now beginning to see it.

 

Shall we assume it's now a two horse race: 6.5x47 and .260.

 

I was reckoning ages ago on using whichever weights had the higher BC. 139s seem popular and appear to have all the right numbers.

This leans me more towards the .260.

For the sake of devil's advocate, what's in favour of the 123s?

 

How do each of these and AI versions measure up when it comes to barrel life?

Is the Ackley chamber worth the fireforming hassle etc for these particular cartridges?

[Middlestead]

28" 1-8" 260rem, dont bother with the ackley, Jewel trigger, Mcmillin A5 or hunter benchrest or Manners T4, H4350 + 139/140/142's and frighten the that which promotes growth and vigour out of yourself at how it shoot's @1000

[baldie]

as far as the 123 versus the 139 goes, there is no contest, the heavier bullet wins on bc every time. Again, we are back to the magical 3000 fps. most bullets seem to perform best, especially in wind, around or above this figure, so to get a 139 there, takes more powder than it does for a 123, thus reducing barrel life. However, its negligible i reckon. The .260 runs a large primer, and the 6.5x47 runs a small, which is to its advantage.

I dont think there is practically anything to choose between them, apart from one thing...the only brass available for the .260 is remington. If you want quality brass, you need to neck up.243, or neck down .308, obviously using lapua. This involves dies, and also neck turning. Personally, if i was going to do all that, i would have the ackley chamber too, and have the advantage of the shoulder angle [burns more inside the case] and far less brass stretch. The 6.5x47 ?... use brass straight from the lapua box.

Three of us were shooting the f class at the phoenix [i won it] my mate was using an ae .308, and was having to aim off in the 8 ring for wind. My other mate was using a swede, and was aiming off into the 9 ring. i was using the 6.5x47, and was moving my crosshair dot around the inside of the bull for wind. The other two were,nt anywhere near 3000 fps, and were suffering, so you have to reckon on shoving the 139 that fast for a competitive cartridge.

Your choice buddy, personally i would be happy with either, it just happens i picked the 6.5x47.

[casts_by_fly]

as I was reading through your description, I was picturing one of my own future builds.

 

Savage long action, B&C tac/varmint stock, sharp shooter supply trigger, in 260 rem. Long action so that it can be a repeater with long bullets. The savage can have the bolt knobs replaced easily (at home). Changing barrels is a do it yourself job if you want. What's not to like? The 260 is standard boltface, nothing special required.

 

The difficulty of course is getting savage actions and parts here. In the states you can mail order anything you want aside from the receiver. Even still, it is probably worth at least doing the math on this end to see if it is what you want. I did just see a savage in the classifieds either here or another UK forum.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[njc110381]

I didn't realise you could get a slot for say a 6.5, then pick what you actually want later. That's useful! So you can have anything that fires a 6.5 bullet now then? Sorry if my comment sounds a little dumb, but to me that means you could ask for a .30 calibre, and get anything from a .308 to a .300RUM?

[Guest northernchris]

Depends on which police force you are with.

[Ronin]

For me, I would only consider three options 6.5x47, 260 Rem and 6.5x284.

 

You can make the "47" shoot 140's but velocity is reduced - HOWEVER, Norma make a phenomenal 130g bullet so I woulndnt discount it and even the humble 123g Scenar will get to 1000 yds quicker and with less drift than a 308...

 

 

The 260 and 6.5x284 have the hold in velocity with heavier bullets, the "284" being barrel unfriendly if pushed too fast.

 

Another minus for the 284 is you really need a long action to get reliable mag feed with heavy bullets.

 

So that leaves the 260.

 

Best of all?

 

Well it shoots up to 140 grainers, feeds from short action mags and is sweet to shoot, you know it makes sense

[AHPP]

I didn't realise you could get a slot for say a 6.5, then pick what you actually want later. That's useful! So you can have anything that fires a 6.5 bullet now then? Sorry if my comment sounds a little dumb, but to me that means you could ask for a .30 calibre, and get anything from a .308 to a .300RUM?

 

As Chris says, the postcode lottery strikes again. I even know of other FEOs in the same county that won't have it but others that will.

Mine is OK with it. As long as I don't end up with a 6.5-.408 CheyPissTakeTac nobody will mind or notice. Also, applying for only the bore is a subtle way of clawing back a little flexibility in licensing.

[AHPP]

Still between 6.5x47 and .260.

I was nigh on decided in favour of the 6.5x47 because of the brass but the reliability with the 140s that a few have mentioned is pulling me back towards the .260.

 

Damn you Ronin! I was nearly there!

 

There's always the Berger 130s though...

 

 

 

It's looking quite like being a 6.5x47, isn't it.

[baldie]

I rang ruag the other day to ask for a box of the new norma,s......they havent got, or had any, so the lady told me. Another bloody test in shooting sports, that details a product that is usually 12 months away. It happened to me with .204 39 grain blitzkings a couple of years back.the mag tested them...it was 12 months later when Kranks got some.

[AHPP]

Right.

 

Have had a damn good sniff around and I'm pretty sure I've come to a conclusion.

 

It's looking like a 6.5x47 mainly on brass availability. I'm too inexperienced to bugger about turning .243 or .308 brass into .260 - time which I think would be better spent shooting the thing and learning to load for it (with off-the-shelf Lapua brass). Frankly, I don't want the extra hassle for the probably small realistic benefit. The better ( ? ) performance with heavier bullets has me wanting the .260 but practicality says 6.5x47.

 

Even if the 139s or 140s don't work well in the 6.5x47 there are still the 130 Bergers by way of compromise. Even then, if I needed to use even lighter, shooting the 123s would hardly be a disaster.

 

So 6.5x47 is most likely is.

It's a short action with a common size bolt-face so when it comes to the time for a change I can put a .260 barrel on with not too much bother (if I really feel the need for it) - Or many other calibres for that matter.

 

 

 

I'll sleep on it for a few days to make sure.

 

 

 

Many thanks for the help and info.

[Ronin]

Personally, I think either 260 or the "47" is a good choice.

 

Dave the Norma 130's have been available for over 2 years, cannot understand why RUAG UK do not stock them.....however, the 123 Scenars work just as well pushed to 3000 fps

[baldie]

This is what you get when you talk to a bloody woman about guns.

RUAG, are supposed to be the importers of norma , i believe Andy. I,ll ring the silly mare back.

[Tikka 260]

This is what you get when you talk to a bloody woman about guns.

RUAG, are supposed to be the importers of norma , i believe Andy. I,ll ring the silly mare back.

 

 

Dont hold your breath with RUAG, when I enquired about availability of Norma ammunition and brass ;they (she) didnt even know that 7-08 Rem is a rifle calibre.... and they had no intention of importing ammunition or brass for it either!

 

ATB

 

T260