Reloading .308 and .303

[Spencer54]

New to reloading and want to reload both, is there some parts that will cross over or do I need separate powders, primers etc for both specific calibres.

 

I'd like to keep it simple in the first instance, so if I can by a lot of one type of anything it will keep costs down. I've seen that people put 308 bullets into 303 cases but is this a waste and should I go N140 for 308 and IMR3031 for example for the 303. I don't want to duplicate if I don't have to.

 

Thanks

[MrCetrizine]

I use N140 in my .303 and it will work for .308 though I've just been recommended N150 for my particular .308 in another thread.

 

They both use large rifle primers.

 

As for bullets, it depends on your rifle. Some will happily shoot .308 bullets accurately but if it's a very worn barrel then you may need .311 (.303) bullets to get a good bite into the rifling.

[gbal]

Spencer, quite a big question-but understandable,and asking should minimise 'mistakes'

 

There is some overlap betwen 'similar' calibres for powder,with 'acceptable' results-Vihtavuori is good consistent and reasonably priced and available;you need to check what reloading data suggest-but if you are advised that differnt powders are 'needed' two one kilo lots of say v140 for 308 and Vxxx for another cartridge won't cost more than two kilos of the same V140...but there is a bit more outlay (a kilo will give 330-350 reloads in 308,say).

 

But you have to be careful with bullets- 308 takes-308 diameter bullets ..BUT 303 needs 311/2 diameter (308 are too loose-and DO NOT load 308 with 303 bullets. THis isn't always so,but cartridge 'sizes' as in the names,are nit 100% reliably what the bullets are (the 223 eg takes 224 bullets ,as do almost all the 22x cf cartridges....you just need to know,and 308/303 ARENOT INTERCHANGEABLE-recipe for disaster,and no economy offsets that,even if there were such economies (there are cheaper bullets I both calibres,but performance tends to be linked.

 

OK,just a 'heads up' on this (don't call bullets'heads',call them bullets,by the way-purist get techy. :-)

 

SOme kit will be 'common' eg your reloading press,powder scales....tough yu will need different she'll holder for some cartridges (they differ a bit in rims etc etc-but those are sub £10)....

 

You will get lots of advice here,so check it out-be very careful about the basics-powder suitability and weight,and correct bullets (when this applies-as it does with 303/308-why isn't it 311/2 just live with it,but some measure across the rifling,some across the space between.....just don't expect the numbers to be reliable ultimately-check...it reallly isn't much of an issue,but you need to get it right! Enjoy!

 

Gbal

[Spencer54]

Thanks for the input - and I think what I'll do is reload for .308 and buy complete for .303 for the time being.

Main reason for asking was so I could buy one set of powder,primer and have a go at both.

Without having to do hundreds of each.

 

I might as well cut my teeth on the .308 and once that's been nailed move over to the .303.

 

Last thing I need to do is ruin my guns that would put a downer in my day

 

Thanks

[gbal]

Sensible- two together is an added complexity-no gain-you can get mil surplus for either,though 303 supply is drying up...mil surp is OK,but seldom. The most accurate....

308 runs nicely on V 140 (and many others-you need a manual,or check on line manufacturers loads,and don't exceed max;large rifle primers (not magnums) and almost any 308 bullet-155,168 g are good general purpose ones. Costs of reloading are abut the same between your two cartridge choices-so,as said,there really isn't any economy to be gained....but best KIS,to begin with-

Major items-press and powder scale,simple hand primer,will be needed for almost any other cartridge,anyhow-as well a specific bits-like the dies. Meanwhile,ask,read,believe selectively from club experts....

(The 303 jacketed bullets are 311 diameter,the soft lead cast cheap ones are often 312,squeezed into the rifling. A tad more-but this is the sort of detail you will soon pick up at club level...the cast ones won't perform nearly so well....and foul the bore more-stay with jacketed bullets for now(and forever,perhaps!)

YOu will probably be able to use 7.62 NATO rifle ammo 'surplus'...though there are small differnces,it's very close to 308w-though often loaded to slightly higher,but OK,pressures for military weapons....GGG brand is a very reasonable and safe option-but has crimped in primers-a nuisance,fixable,if you want to keep the brass for reloading ....PPU 308 is ok for starters,...as a very rough guide,like for like,you can save the cost of the brass by reloading (which is getting on for half the cost,but brass will wear out,maybe 10 reloas-less if 'hot'-but avoid thaat,it offers no useable performance,at first (and at second-except for expert competitors).

Mildish and safe...way to go. AS said,Keep It Simple, and safe-a bigger bang is seldom an indicator of accuracy etc....and remember,replacement human bits are hard to source,in aany size/calibre! BUt no reason not to enjoy it all.

 

G

[Davy]

There is nothing wrong with cast in the .303 at short to mid distances and indeed they can be pushed to 1000 yards and further. First thing with the .303 is slug the bore to confirm the diameter and from there make a decision on cast or jacketed bullets. I use 200 grain .314" diameter gas checked cast bullets in one my my .303s and it shoots superbly. Beware MV's with cast bullets, even gas checked bullets and I tend to stay just below 2000 fps and use a different powder to .308. Cost wise expect to pay around GBP40-45 for 500 cast bullets

[Spencer54]

Maybe I need to fill in a few blanks here of why and what I have.

 

First off I bought a RCBS Supreme kit so I have all of that to get me going.

Plenty of recipes for .308 and none for .303 in the Nosler book that accompanied it.

 

Main idea here is so I can reload cheap 303/308 for when I'm on military ranges using all the brass I've already got.

 

Next I wanted to do a selection of let's say 50 or so high end rounds so I can have a go at Bisley with my club.

 

On the mil ranges against falling man targets we just blast away, so it made sense to me to reuse old PPU.

But for Bisley I want something decent as we only get through 30 a trip.

[Davy]

For Bisley .303 my chosen is HXP brass neck sized and first fired with a bump O Ring and 174 grain SMK .311 with TR140/RS50 which gives slightly better results for me than N140. Rifle for 800/1000 yards is a P14 Mk 1* ( R ) with a Military Fine Vernier rear sight and a Brindles trigger

[gbal]

Ok,that's helpful info- your RCBS gear is well good enough except for the most pernickity competition ammo-in correspondingly precision smithed rifles.

Better ammo for now,at least,translates as better components,and attention to basics,but in detail-powder to .1g isn't too difficult,and bullets like Sierrs Matcg Kings,or Lapua Scenars are not really expensive for a clear gain ,though the best-Bergers-are getting pricey (50+p a bullet maybe). V140(or V150 for heavier maybe) is excellent powder,at no premium costs-every bit as good as US powders,which are a bit more....US !00 y bench rest accuracy afficionados shoot V 133 exclusively....it's that good....

For now,you don't need all the cool gear like seating depth precision- you can just lower your RCBS setter rod a tad,but I'd not bother-load to SAAMI magazine length for now...and all the other stuff....don't even think about 'meplet trimming''-even the experts have misgivings...It's endless,but with seriously increasing costs and diminishing returns.

And be aware of ''accurate'-it means quite different things to differnt shooters-if you get moa groups,that is about as good as you will need for now,sub moa is a bonus- but military falling men are a fair size-I shoot them a lot,and mega £K kit just is not needed for that,nice though I admit it is,and having it,I use it when it matters....Berger bullets often make a bigger differnce,but try Sierra Match/Lapua and get close....you'll know it's wind that sorts shooters out,anyhow. (Read today's write up on 1000y-top gear/shooters,wind challenges) having Lapua brass is minor-but very advisable- usually no need to prep it,it lasts longer,so is in most cases more economical as well as better!

"Reaches 1000y" is generally an expression that needs''somewhere' added on,and usually not implying the X bull-maybe on the target frame,some shots.... Though 'fun' isn't dependent on xbulls/tiny groups,fairly soon ,satisfaction is.(see Diggle results as mentioned-and that's with top kit-lesser stuff,worse-often much-though seldom actually there.

Get good bullets. Bullet and barrel are 80% of good results,if the rest is at least ok.

G

[Spencer54]

Excellent stuff

 

.303 I'd like a recipe which is for a nice No4 mk1

.308 is a Tikka Varmint (20")

 

I'd like a plinking set up and then a club comp set up for both

 

Anyone have a starter for 10 I can get going with?

[MrCetrizine]

39 grains of N140 behind a 174 grain .311 PPU FMJ exactly matches the original iron sights on my No4 MK1.

That's almost 3 grains under published max load so you should be OK giving it a go.

[gbal]

Maxing velocity may have lower returns than many assume;lets just see how a 30 calibre does with a 175 bulllet of modern design-and under rather good conditions viz: .5moa shooter/rig groups;+/- 1yard range error;=/- 1mph wind reading error and 10fps MV SD

We're shooting IPSC targets,pretty close to Fig 11s,so what doesMv do for us-well,it helps-

Here are the % hits:

 

600y 2500 fps. 100%. 2800 fps. 100%

 

800y. 2500. 99%. 2800 fps 99%

 

1000y. 2500. 84%. 2800. 92%

 

1200y. 2500. 57%. 2800. 70%

 

You probaby struggle to get 2800 fps from a short 308w,and to get up 3100 fps (the hit% there is 80%). you need a bigger cartridge (30 Win Mag etc).

And of courseifvelocity falls lower,so do hits....and ditto with lowereBc,moa,skill,etc etc.....

 

So,is 9 hits out of ten really so much better than eight hits out of ten,that you are prepared to try for the 300fps more that offers it -indeed is it actually attainable (or pro rata with more modest parameters-espcially poorer wind reading-you'll need a much greater compensation from the other factors,and they may just not be available).

 

The answer probably changes with smaller targets,and intense competition ,wher just missing as ordering might put you down a place overall....there is no universal answer...and especially,no one buyable factor is supreme.

 

Take away for now is,100-300 fps less MV is not going to ruin a near perfect day.....all on it's own (only the shooter can do that,not the tools,if they are reasonable ones). :-)

 

gbal

[Chanonry]

Main idea here is so I can reload cheap 303/308 for when I'm on military ranges using all the brass I've already got.

 

Next I wanted to do a selection of let's say 50 or so high end rounds so I can have a go at Bisley with my club.

 

Two different approaches then.

 

308 is a forgiving round to reload. So -

 

for a basic round have a look around online for bulk fmj/hpbt heads. Then look for the alternative powders at a much cheaper price to the common branded powders. Used to be Elcho 17 etc but I suspect it has crept up. You could end up with a very economic round that shoots well enough and certainly better than most mil surp thanks to your care in reloading. Needs a bit of work but can save substanially.

 

For higher end stuff, well its premium bullets that do the flying, loaded over a reliable, branded powder as it will give you a quality load that is well tested and understood. One (of many suggestions) would be a Berger bullet over N140. Most attention is given to this approach rather than the former and costs are out of proportion to the gains.

[Grum87]

IMR4064 and 3031 are excellent powders in the 303, 4064 is also a superb powder in 308 with a 175gr Matchking.

 

As for .308 bullets in a 303? Well.....it works for me. I've shot .308 180gr round nose softpoints through mine with good accuracy, and I shoot 7.62/.308 Tracer projectile from my .303 aswell.

 

It will require fiddling with dies, if running a full length sizing die or a normal neck sizing die(not a lee collet), you will require a .308 expanding ball on the decapping stem.