HAVE YOU FOUND MUCH DIFFERENCE IN PRIMERS

[nemasis243]

Another question which i would love some feed back on,

Wheather it be small, large or magnum , lets say your shooting small primers in your round make up,do you see much of a difference between different makes ?

Also is there an advantage using match.

 

I have always used match since I started loading as I was told this was the way to go , but is there much difference?

[reloaderdan]

i have been using ccibr in both my small and large cases and have never had any problems with them and have never really given it any thought about changing them it will be intresting to see what others out there are using

[Ronin]

I used about 50 SR, CCI primers whilst doing load dev on the 6.5x47, accuracy was'nt great - just over 1/2 inch at 100 meters and ES into 50 - 80 fps over ten shot strings.

 

 

Swapped to CCI BR and Fed Match (in separate lots) and ES shrank to single figures, the groups became one hole sub half moa and quarter MOA.

 

I only use match primers, I used the non match as I had run out for a while - now I have re stocked .

[craigyboy]

In testing cci br4's, fed 205m and remington 7 1/2 primers i found that with the same powder charge cci primers were the fastest by 50 fps and fed 205m were the slowest, a full 80 fps slower than the cci primers and rem 7 1/2 were somwhere in between, the fed 205m offered the lowest extreme spread and SD.

[eldon]

CCI primers are definetly harder if you want to go hotter.

 

When I started reloading I had never had a misfire with factory ammo. With the reloads and CCI small rifle primers I had something like 6 out of 24 shots misfired

 

Changed the firing pin spring and all was well. Used CCI since with not one misfire.

[Guest varmartin]

I have found the same as craigyboy too....

 

I have not done a lot of testing, but made a switch to cci br 4`s from fed 205m`s when they were hard to get....

 

My load of a 95 grain Berger vld over 31.5 grns @ 2950 fps (fed 205m ) increased to 3000 fps with cci br4 primers.

[Andrew]

I agree. I believe that there is a huge difference in primers. I am not a proponent of "match" primers in anything other than precision rifles due to the cost, but I have found that switching brands of primers while keeping the same powder charge will result in variable accuracy. While I was working up loads for my 7x57 stalking rifle I used Remington 9 1/2 primers and got phenomenal accuracy. A switch to Federal or Winchester doubled group sizes with that powder, bullet, and load. Different loads had different primers performing as well or better.

 

In my CZ Hornet I switched from all manner of small rifle primers to small pistol primers. It was the final step in producing consistent 1/2 MOA groups.~Andrew

[Ronin]

Interesting point about hardness of primers.

 

The two 6.5x47's ive built recently both achieve best accuracy with max loads.

 

The BAT has a moderate firing strength pin spring and does not pierce primers even at max loads.

 

The Stiller has quite a heavy firing pin spring (certainly stronger than the BAT) and pierces primers on max loads.

 

(Ive checked firing pin protrusion and its within the tolerances told me by Stiller, before anyone shouts up...)

 

The primers in question are Fed match.

 

When we swap to CCI BR, there is similar velocity (within 30 fps using same powder) and accuracy is just the same, but the primers do not puncture.

 

Hasten to add that the BAT shows no sign of pressure and neither does the Stiller at these powder levels - just primer penetration with one brand of primers.

 

CCI are definately thicker CUP material than Feds.

[nemasis243]

Im glad I asked the question lads , some very interesting coments , its a good excuse to have a testing day when i get some good weather.

Cheers Andy

[Guest northernchris]

I have found very little if any differance between CCI Br primer and the Federal Gold medal match,one thing that is noticable though is the Federal primers "show" pressure more easy due to the cup being slighty lighter in construction.

[nemasis243]

thats interesting Chris

[325WSM]

Primers are as much a variable component as any other in reloading and can alter velocity and trajectory and therefore accuracy quite considerably.

 

I have long been an advocate of using primers in the same way as powder to vary a load with great effect.

 

We dont choose our case because one looks shinier than another but because of the chemical composition that is most suitable for our particular load. Neither do we choose a Powder just because the local shop has it on the shelf and so with Primers - choose your primer to do the best job possible for the load you are generating.

 

A change of primer can in some loads require a drop of 3 grains and the difference in velocity without any increase in pressure can equally improve by 100fps. Use your primers in the same way as your powder and you will be surprised at the difference your loads will provide.

 

Here is a basic heat chart - from top to bottom drop about 5-6% in powder and work from there.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v356/mry716/General/?action=view&current=primerheatchart.jpg

Use it as a guide and add in your own primers when you have assessed them. eg, the Prvi Partizan Primers although burning approximately as hot as the Winchester range do because of their different construction not seem to require a reduction in powder when changing from say Remington. Try for yourself and let us all know your test results as it will expand the above chart considerably.

 

Use of Magnum primers is normally reserved for the Ball Powders but I am finding I can use them to great effect in the shorter stumpier cases such as the WSM and WSSM range of cartridges. Logically this should also be valid for the Benchrest PPC cartridges.

 

The same is true for the H4831 SC powder in 243 - A Federal Magnum primer seems to provide anything up to 120 fps higher velocities than standard primers yet seemingly without additional pressure.

BUT

do drop the powder weight and build up again.

 

 

In this months 'Handloader' I notice that Charles Petty has written an article on Primers and 223 accuracy - anyone who would like to read it email me at mry716@hotmail.com and I will send a copy.

 

 

Please remember to drop powder weights when changing primers and do also remember that with the present hot weather you need to reconsider all those max loads and take out a little powder.

 

A 10 degree rise in temp requires a 5% decrease in powder. If we are going to get such varied weather in coming years it may be best to have a min, intermediate and max load to use dependant on weather temperature.

 

 

 

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v356/mry716/General/?action=view&current=primerheatchart.jpg

[eldon]

 

A 10 degree rise in temp requires a 5% decrease in powder. If we are going to get such varied weather in coming years it may be best to have a min, intermediate and max load to use dependant on weather temperature.

 

 

Is that a proven set of numbers?

 

So a 40 plus grain load decided on in winter at say 5 degrees used on a summers day at 25 degrees is like an extra 4 grains of powder?

[Alycidon]

[

A 10 degree rise in temp requires a 5% decrease in powder. If we are going to get such varied weather in coming years it may be best to have a min, intermediate and max load to use dependant on weather temperature.

 

 

The Americans talk a lot about air temperature affecting things but they do get wild seasonal differences especially in some centeral states. I had not really thought about it that much with our temperatures being fairly constant between 30F and 80F, sounds like I should.

 

Does the temp affect both pressure and velocity?, I would assume so.

 

Thanks

 

A

[325WSM]

As you will appreciate I am on the PC very little these days and so have only just seen your replies. (See http://ukvarminting.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2723)

 

 

 

A 10 degree rise in temp requires a 5% decrease in powder. If we are going to get such varied weather in coming years it may be best to have a min, intermediate and max load to use dependant on weather temperature.

 

 

That statement as with all statements should not to be taken as 'Gospel' for all eventualities but more should be used as a basis from which to judge your own loads.

 

I have always checked zero (and kept notes thereof) at different times of the year and therefore at different outdoor temps – Having found significant differences with some calibres I loaded my ammo accordingly. May I suggest for those of you that use a rifle with the same load throughout the year you do the same and then if necessary adjust your loads so providing say a Summer and a Winter load.

 

As an example – I really only ever use my Ruger 22-250 for Hares but it could easily shoot above a hare’s head at 300yds on a hot May day whereas in January the bullets were spot on under the chin. I therefore always take ammo loaded appropriately for the outdoor temp when I shoot hares.

 

Temp is particularly important if your load is at the higher end of the pressure levels and I would always suggest you also use a chronograph as a safeguard and NEVER exceed the factory ammo max velocity/pressure levels for summer loads.

[Alycidon]

325WSM,

 

Nice to see you are around and helping with sound advice as per normal.

 

A

[griffshrek]

325 wsm

 

what you are saying is when i do my round the world game hunt next week with my trusty .243 i should load less powder in the case for the african lion hunt in 40 deg temp and a few grains more for the pola bear hunt at -30deg.

 

i'm glad i read this post otherwise i might have come a bit unstuck with wrongly loaded ammo in my .243 for the lion and pola bear hunts ......neil

[325WSM]

325 wsm

 

what you are saying is when i do my round the world game hunt next week with my trusty .243 i should load less powder in the case for the african lion hunt in 40 deg temp and a few grains more for the pola bear hunt at -30deg.

 

i'm glad i read this post otherwise i might have come a bit unstuck with wrongly loaded ammo in my .243 for the lion and pola bear hunts ......neil

 

 

Thats the idea in principle but the last time I was in S Africa looking for early morning lion there a a suficiently heavy frost to make everything white over and despite all the ice and often very severe temperatures the NWT can provide a surprising amount of heat on a bright sunny day - certainly sufficient to need your head covering.