What's your process to make the most accurate load?

[Oly]

OK,

 

So I've been reloading a little while now and really want to start altering the different attributes of a load to make the best round possible for my rifle. But I have heard conflicting processes of how to achieve this . So far I have only been altering the seating depth as I was told that regardless of powder charge the best seating depth for a given weight of bullet in a given rifle should remain the same. However, I have also heard that you should start by finding the best powder charge (for a given bullet weight & rifle) first and then move onto seating depth.

 

In what order would you alter the various atributes to attain the perfect load?

 

Powder

Primer

Seating Depth

Neck Tension

Etc etc

 

Thankfully I was given a lot of help when buying my reloading gear so I should have everything I need to alter the various attributes...it's just a case of which attributes to alter first (then second, then third and so on...will it ever end?!? )!!!

 

Many Thanks

[Ronin]

Case prep - get everything exactly the same:

 

De bur flash holes

 

In non fitted neck - neck turn cases so that you get 3/4 circumfirance clean up.

 

If fitted neck - you will know what to do.

 

Trim all cases to same OAL.

 

De bur inside and outside edges of case mouth.

 

USe scotch pad to gently smooth case mouth.

 

Primers - use Bench Rest only.

 

 

Powder charges - throw and trickle up so all are EXACTLY same weight.

 

Bullets - weigh each one and sort into batches you will get about 10% in a box of 100 that are a bit over or under weight - bin them, use the rest.

 

Get a concentricity guage and check loaded rounds, if there is more than a couple of thou eccentricity, think about using different dies.

 

 

 

Welcome to serious handloading.

[Oly]

Ronin,

 

Apologies, maybe I haven't made myself clear - I know how to reload, I just want to know which attributes of the reloading proces people alter first in the search for ultimate accuracy?

 

For example; once you have selected a load from a reloading manual/online data etc do you then start finding the best overall combination by first changing the powder (e.g. going from 40gns to 45gns), then the seating depth (going from 0.050 to the lands down to 0.005 to the lands), then the neck tension etc etc. OR do you then start finding the best overall combination by first changing the seating depth, then the powder, then the neck tension etc etc.

 

I hope that's more clear now.

[6mmBR]

I start with powder charge and then play with OAL to refine the load.

Dave

[Oly]

Thanks Dave, keep them coming boys...the more the merrier!

 

Like I say I have also heard for a given bullet weight the best seating depth should remain the same regardless of amount of powder. Can anyone confirm/deny this?

[6mmBR]

I find that most non VLD bullets tend to shoot slightly back from the lands.

I've found 10 thou off seems to be the magic figure in my .223, .308, 6BR and .22-250

On the other hand using VLD bullets they like to be positioned 10 thou into the lands.

I find small changes in OAL seems to have a bigger effect on accuracy than small changes in powder charge.

Cheers

Dave

[6mmBR]

This you may find interesting.

 

Dave’s Rapid Load Development Strategy

 

 

 

Here is a methodology I often use in working up a load for a new rifle. It’s not the only way to do it, heck it’s not even the only way “I” do it. And I’ve left out a lot of common variations in the interest of keeping this from getting too long. But, it does work to arrive at a good load quickly, in a logical organized manner.

 

 

 

Determining which powder to use is always my first step. Start by picking a good bullet - a proven performer for whatever cartridge/twist you have, Starke or Fowler 52’s for a 14 twist .22-250 for instance. Or, maybe you have a big supply of a bullet that you are bound and determined to use - in such a case finding the best powder for that bullet becomes even more important. I've got thousands of 50 and 55 Vmax on the shelf for instance, and often just use them and never try another bullet - just because I have so many of them. Note, if you really need to test more than one bullet, which is not unusual, always start with the heaviest bullet. That way, you can use "max" for the heavy as "starting" for the lighter ones.

 

 

 

Determine "jam" length (seating depth with the bullet jammed hard into the lands). If you are comfortable loading with bullets contacting the lands (I am), back off .005 from "jam" and that's a good seating depth to start with (the bullet will still be in firm contact with the lands at .005 off "jam"). If you would feel better getting the bullet back off the lands I recommend a solid .005 off to start (I do NOT like loading at the proverbial "just kissing" point - way too indefinite). NOTE - there are exceptions to everything, but, I've found best accuracy is almost always found either with firm contact into the lands or not more than .010 jump (there ARE exceptions!). I’ve read from reliable sources that .22's usually shoot best at .020 off the lands but in exhaustively testing several centerfire .22's, I found .020 off the lands has usually been where groups really start going to that which promotes growth and vigour - I don't recommend it as a good starting point based on my own testing.

 

 

 

Choose some powders to test. However many or few you feel like playing with. I usually choose not less than 3 and not more than 5 powders to begin testing.

 

 

 

Now, here's where my load development technique starts to get tricky. Well, not really tricky, but it is MUCH, MUCH easier to do if you are setup to load at the range. Which is why I always recommend starting out with Wilson dies and a good repeatable powder measure instead of buying an "RCBS kit". But that's a whole nuther ball of wax...

 

 

 

For each powder you want to test, begin with the "starting load" and your chosen bullet at your predetermined seating depth (just into or just off the lands but NOT "just touching"). Load one round at a time, increasing the powder charge for each case (no two will have the same powder charge). Start shooting them into a group. Keep going until you have reached "max". Use your own judgment on what "max" is - if in any doubt, don't go above the published data you are using. I always do this testing over a chronograph, so I'll very quickly know what the max charge and velocity is for each powder I'm testing. Do this for each powder. After shooting this series of groups, I usually know which powder is going to work best. If shooting was done over a chrony, you'll know how velocity stacks up for each powder. You will also have fired a "group" with each powder, I generally end up with about 10 shots in each of these groups (typically in .2 or .3 gr. increments). That's a 10 shot group with each shot having a different powder charge. Guess what? If doing this shooting at short range, like 100 yd's, you will very often find that one or more of the powders produced an amazingly small group for each shot having a different powder charge - I've literally drilled 10 shot "one holers" doing this kind of testing at 100 yards. By the same token, it's likely that some of the powders will have really laid down shotgun patterns in this test. It's my belief that generally speaking, the powder which produced the smallest group with each shot having a different charge weight will also produce the smallest groups when all the shots are weighed the same (as with everything else, there ARE exceptions!). Or, at least I can plainly see it's not a temperamental combo and will be easy to work with.

 

 

 

Note - depending on intended application, I USUALLY like to do this testing at 300 yards or greater. Some of the data you can obtain and observe at long range is completely lost at close range. Without going into detail, simply put it this way: If you intend to use this load at 500 yards, I recommend you do this testing at 500 yards. Vertical which may not show up at all in 100 yard shooting will be way evident at 500. Also, on a related note, and again without going into great detail, strange but true: The load which gives the lowest velocity spread and SD is not always the load which gives the least vertical dispersion at long range. Moral of the story, if you intend to shoot long range, TEST long range!

 

 

 

So, in one whack, you have quickly determined which of the powders tested will likely give best accuracy, what the max. load is and what velocity you are getting.

 

 

 

From there, simply "work down" from the max load shooting groups to determine the most accurate charge weight.

 

 

 

Fine tuning with seating depth is a logical next step.

 

 

 

Primers can make a big difference, no doubt about it. But I generally don't monkey with them except as a last resort. I've rarely had to go that far, but it happens.

 

 

 

Please note, there are about a zillion different ways to skin this cat and the method I've just quickly laid out here isn't always going to be the best way. I don't even always do it this way myself. It's simply one of many schemes that will get you to the same destination. It's a logical and organized methodology, but not necessarily the most logical or organized. Certainly not necessarily the best. The conditions and variables that come into play which may make it advisable to do things completely differently are so varied and vast it is impossible to even try and cover them all. Even just the variations on this methodology are virtually unlimited.

 

 

 

- Dave Affleck

[6mmBR]

There's also some good advice here.

 

Load Development Notes

 

 

General Notes

 

 

Be scientific!

 

Change only one variable at a time.

 

 

 

Work with large enough samples – do not rely on one or two groups.

 

 

 

Seek repeatability, from group to group, day to day. Don’t get sucked in by one or two small groups, look for the best overall average groups.

 

 

 

Be objective. Count ALL groups and shots.

 

 

 

Do not forget the importance of concentricity. Always check to be sure that the setup produces straight ammo.

 

 

 

Try to do load work in good conditions. Test load, not shooting.

 

 

 

ALWAYS keep very good records, including conditions.

 

 

 

If in doubt start with a known good accurate bullet – Fowler 52’s for a .22 caliber for instance.

 

 

 

Remember, loads developed in winter may need to be re-done in summer and vice versa.

 

 

 

Generally speaking, “same powder, same velocity, same pressure”. In other words, using the same powder as listed in a loading manual, and taking barrel length into account, you should be close to the same pressure at the same velocity even if charge is quite different.

 

 

 

 

 

Working up a Load

 

 

Be sure to do some shooting and load work at 200 and 300 yards or further, not just 100!

 

 

 

Always find the powder and charge first. Then find best seating depth. From that point on, when trying other powders and bullets, use the distance from lands determined to be the best.

 

 

 

Powder and Powder Charge Selection

 

 

Density

 

A good place to start in powder selection is the powder that gives best velocity at about 85% of case water capacity, without being a max. load (middle load from data manual). In other words, determine case water capacity, look for powder which has “middle” charge listed at 85% of capacity that gives best velocity. Be open minded here, “fast” powders very often display best accuracy despite poor load density. Try some of each!

 

 

 

Incremental Load Development

Should be done from at least 200 yards, 300 even better, 500 better still. Conditions should be as good as possible (don’t even bother in tough conditions). Choose a starting load and increment (.2 or .3 gr. Etc...), that should reach max. in the number of shots to be fired. Important – charges should be carefully WEIGHED for this testing, measured is not good enough. Weigh charges at home and take to field if need be. Shoot at least ten shots, twenty is better. Shoot over chronograph! Always start with a clean bore and fire a couple of fouling shots using starting load before beginning test. Chart impact and velocity for each shot, use a spotting scope if needed to plot each shot on a chart at the bench. Consider using “shoot-n-see” targets if needed to spot impact points. Looking for "flat spots” in velocity and impact point. If “flat spots” are hard to find, try another powder, bullet or primer etc…

 

 

 

Seating Depth

Seating depth is one of the most important variables in finding the best load for a rifle. Choose a starting point for seating depth depending on application. If appropriate for the application, always start with the bullet solidly touching the lands (but not “jammed”). .005 to .010 short of “jammed” is very often the optimum seating depth. After the best powder charge has been found at this starting seating depth, start to fine tune seating depth. Try going to “jammed” if appropriate, otherwise start working out in .010 increments. Find most promising area and go back and re-shoot in .005 increments. Stay away from “just touching” – too hard to accurately measure and relationship too delicate to maintain. Much more consistent to either be in firm contact with lands or cleanly free of lands.

 

 

 

Necks and Neck Tension

 

Neck tension is a very important variable in accuracy. Both the amount of tension and the uniformity of tension. Of the two, uniformity may be the more important. For best uniform tension, neck thickness needs to be uniform.

 

 

 

For applications where very light neck tension is appropriate (non-magazine ammo for instance), a dry lube applied to the inside of the neck may help achieve more uniform tension.

 

 

 

For single shot precision applications, try “self seating”. That’s light neck tension (an easy thumb pressure to seat, but can’t twist seated bullet in fingers), jammed hard into the lands.

 

 

 

Remember, a lot of neck tension and a seating depth jammed into the lands will give nasty vertical virtually every time. If using more than .002 neck tension, do NOT SEAT HARD INTO THE LANDS.

 

 

 

Very good necks DO matter. Turn carefully and polish inside for best

 

results/accuracy.

 

 

 

Misc. Notes and Troubleshooting

 

 

 

Vertical groups usually indicate that the powder charge is not quite right. “Tune” out vertical. Could be gun or bag setup too. If possible, try adjusting powder charge UP to cure vertical. Might try jumping the bullet to cure vertical too.

 

 

 

Horizontal groups usually indicate conditions.

 

 

 

Theory is that faster powders tend to shoot best off the lands while slower powders tend to shoot best into the lands. Something to keep in mind but not anything to live by.

 

 

 

For 4 and 1 groups, try new bullets if you’re sure it isn’t conditions. For 3 and 2 groups, look to bedding or scope.

[Oly]

Many Thanks Dave, much appreciated. Lots of good stuff there!!

 

Just another point though - a lot of people talk about getting really close to the lands (at present the closest I have been is 0.020) but being a long throated Remmy (in .243 Win) this can be tricky at times. It does also shoot factory ammo well, which is 0.090 off the lands. I was wondering what other people's experience with long throated Remmy's has been?

[eldon]

Oly,

being in a similar boat to you with a remy (308) I have found hollow point bullets shoot better with the same OAL as soft points. This gives a base to ogive measurement actually longer with there being no point and so sits quite a bit closer but still feeds from the mag.

 

Does that make sense?

[Ronin]

Oly

 

 

no problem, all my points are relevant to ultimate accuracy, without the fundametals, there is no point going any further.

 

 

For me, powder charges changed in .3 grain increments untill I get an accuracte load.

 

Then I alter seat depth, I usualy start .005" off the lands and work outwards - .010", .015", .020" etc etc.

 

Usually, I go back to .005 or .010" and leave it set there.

 

Neck tension, my bushing dies are usually set .002" smaller than loaded round diameter (neck) this also works for me.

[onehole]

Superb guidance seen here already guys and good advice will be soaked by many reading this post and I can only really add one thing to the list and that is do NOT rely on jam numbers you get from using a stoney point modified case period!!!!You may get lucky but believe me the best way is always to use a fireformed case,bore it out and thread it to fit the stony point rod or use the split neck method ie cut slots in the neck and load and chamber the intended head into your chamber and take reading from this and you will only be about 1 or 2 thou out max.I also agree that its best to go perhaps 10 thou away or into the lands if you are looking for an effect on grouping and generally I have found that its only VLDS that really benefit from being hard into the lands and from my own experience working up a powder load on other heads off the lands is the way to go.Sammi spec loads can also be a good start point and its real scary that one Sako 75 in 223 that I have been working on has the lands just starting just 10thou away from sammi spec!!!!!!!!Be careful Onehole.

[Oly]

Thanks guys, much appreciated.

 

Eldon - not too sure what you mean, but what distance off the lands are you working to then?

 

Would appreciate hearing what other people's best seating depths for Remmy's are too.

 

Cheers,

Oly.

[Ronin]

Might be an idea to ask silentsouls (Jamie)

 

 

he loads to SAAMI spec most if not all the time (I believe) and gets great results, without "chasing the lands"

[eldon]

Oly,

If I load a soft point to 2.820 ( largest for mag length) the ogive to base length is obviously a lot less because of the point.

If I load a hollow point to same OAL the ogive to base number is a lot longer i.e. closer to lands.

 

 

I tried 165 HPs and my rifle likes these. So I set some at 2.820 OAL.

I then matched the ogive to base lengths of the HPs, using soft points and the OAL measurement was something like 2.950, miles too big for mag. This meant the 150 gr heads were falling out of the case.

 

The OAL means nothing really and wanders about depending on bullet quality. If its too big you can't mag feed. If your single feeding with a factory Remy then it might be worth messing.

 

If I was you and your using the mag then stick around SAMMI 2.800''.