HBN (Haxagonal Boron Nitride)

[Laurie]

I've got a friend who's asking about UK suppliers of HBN powder and/or has any information about its use as a low-friction bullet coating. Any information / suggestions, please?

[John MH]

Cleaner than moly, same method of application, I use stainless steel ball bearings and tumble 50 bullets at a time. Got my HBN from Canada several years ago. Used it on 6mm bullets for the 6XC, still have loads coated waiting to be used.

[Akeld]

 

19.55

[Noodler]

Akeld excellent video, pretty much covered everything.

 

Mal.

[Akeld]

Aye, he does a decent video does Richard

[DaveT]

Laurie

 

I have address for uk supply but am on hols....will send after oct 10

[DaveT]

07970 448714 Geoff Randall

[firestarter]

I had to buy 1/2Kg of the stuff! Your friend is quite welcome to some of it...a little goes a long way!

 

Cheers

 

Sean

[Laurie]

Thanks guys. I'll direct him to this thread.

[JSC]

I've tried it but didn't really see much benefit over moly coating, apart from the lack of black dust coating everything in the room!

Another shooter I boron coat bullets for says he gets more consistency with them but hasn't found any increase in accuracy over moly, which is what I suspected.

As for UK sourcing the powder, I looked into that a couple of years ago and couldn't find anyone who would supply small quantities of the right powder, so I just bought from the States.

There is a lot of talk about using powder with the correct particle size(s). I don't think it's as important as some make out as I did some experiments with the 'special' powder David Tubb developed and compared the results against some powder bought from ebay. Couldn't tell any difference when they were shot. Also compared tumbling methods - ball bearings + bullets in a tumbler vs. bullets only in a small tub placed in tumbler. Same result when shot.

One thing I don't like about it is that with moly you can very clearly see when you've coated the bullets properly and the finish is very uniform. With Bn coating, the coating invariably looks patchy and speckled, even when there's a proper layer of Bn on the copper.

[c18rch]

just another variable in a game that is all about consistency.

[Chickenthief]

One spot where BhN really shines is cleaning.

It is so much easier.

[gbal]

just another variable in a game that is all about consistency.

Isn't the variable already there as deviations in muzzle velocity?

IF boron nitrate reduces that variation,is that not a potentially worthwhile improvement in something that is a known contributor to bullet dispersion?

If you always use BN,it isn't really a variable,is it? It's a choice-like powder or bullet.

 

BN may reduce velocity also,and if so maybe that can be compensated by a tad more powder.If so,it's an option?

 

If it really does make factory cleaning much easier,that is a big bonus-though not performance related.

 

There are a few IFs in there,agreed!!

 

Akeld,thanks for a very informed,first hand,no bull,chat about the stuff. Just got all the moly to plink away first!

 

gbal

[c18rch]

Powder

Primer

Bullet

Case

 

All essential variables that you can't shoot without

 

BN, is one you don't need so why introduce it? How can you possibly ensure that every bullet is coated in exactly the same way with exactly the same amount?

 

No doubt someone will prove me wrong, but you don't regularly see benchrest shooters winning with coated bullets.

[JSC]

I would argue that 'what you need' is something you need to think about and decide on based on the type of shooting you do.

 

Any type of bullet coating is an additional process you carry out because it will give you a benefit for your type of shooting. How you ensure the coating is applied evenly is something which can be resolved given some time and experience.

 

You could also suggest that neck-turning, bullet pointing, annealing and lots of other processes some of us carry out are also unnecessary variables, but those of us who have proven they have a benefit choose to do them and then try and be as consistent as possible when we apply them.

[gbal]

c18,OK think of it this way:of course any one component will have variance within it,eg bullets are by no means clones in terms of manufacturing tolerances (some boxes have bullets from different dies!),but some makes are more consistent than others-currently the ogive variation on Bergers is better than most.Consisteny is optimised (not perfect) by using such bullets.It may not be a big issue for some uses.

 

Consistency will be less if the bullets from the same box vary more,let alone different manufacturing batches.....so don't mix and not match! Ditto for all other components-powders can vary etc.Consistency is using the same tub.If you change,there may be a change.

DIY coating is ever likely to be less consistent-whether a few microns difference shows up will be hard to detect.Following near identical coating procedures will help. Buying commercial coated bullets ammo is an option (it's about 5cents a time in US).

Back ten to fifteen years,many Bench Rest shooters were using moly coated bullets,and groups did not change much either way.The fashion changed.Their barrels clean easily anyhow. Tubb still uses BN,I think,certainly has done well with it (numero uno in across the course).

If you want consistency-absolutely- there might be a case for a better cleaned bore-bullet coatings usually help cleaning. (Akeld's clearest point,for factory rifles especially).

 

AS JSC points out,neck turning,meplet tidying etc,are all extra operations-a major justification for neck turning is to improve the concentricity of factory brass-and that goes for Lapua,too (perhaps the best out of the box brass,generally).Most precision afficionados do quite a bit of 'prep',and all in the name of consistency.They tend to do better.

Inconsistency is NOT adding more processes-it is doing any process inconsistently/using components whose manufacturing tolerance could be better.The aim of most is to reduce inconsistency in the original manufacture.

No doubt some procedures,competently done,carry more improvement than others,and any procedure can be bodged,including the original manufacture ( a little),and therefore potentially improved.

It is a fundamental fallacy to assume out of the box is perfection,and anything done

retrospectively is adding inconsistency. Quite the opposite,for 'cutting edge'-not cutting corners- hand loaders.

Whether you need to/want to/are able to is another matter.You might get by very well indeed in CISM/300m competition with 6BR Norma Silver Jacket factory ammo,and would be well advised not to scrape the coating off.

 

atb,whatever you shoot

 

gbal

[DaveT]

I am trialling it in a 6mm SLR more than anything else to see if it produces the anticipated extended barrel life.

 

With UK component costs it may be well worth the effort ...plus it does certainly appear to reduce fouling significantly.

 

It is really easy (and VERY clean compared to moly) to apply consistently and the initial 'spottiness' clears with a light rub in a soft cloth.

 

As the above posts highlight it is another step but we all adopt our own reloading regime and many do not go beyond the basics and are quite successful...its down to time / inclination / personal faith in your process etc.

 

If my trials work out over time then I may well adopt HBN across my calibres.

 

I had to buy a large supply but this is easily sorted out via a group buy.

 

Don't slag things off unless you have given it a decent trial.

[c18rch]

I wasn't slagging anything off.

 

Just saying, another variable in a game of consistency.

 

I haven't seen anything that prooves bullet coatings improve accuracy. You pay you money and take your choice.

 

I won't be trying it imo it's waste of time any money for no gain and potentially worse results.

[JSC]

To repeat what's been said and maybe draw a line under the question whether it's worth doing, a lot of processes we carry out when handloading are in place to improve consistency and not necessarily accuracy.

 

If shot-to-shot consistency isn't important in the type of shooting you are doing, then you may decide a lot of these processes are a waste of time and money. As you say, it's your choice.

 

However, if you want to reduce 'fliers' to a minimum, you need to consider all the evidence and opinion out there, try them for yourself and then make an informed decision whether it's going to give you a benefit.

 

The main benefits I've seen with Moly and Bn coatings are:

 

1. Less copper fouling of the bore and easier barrel cleaning

2. Potentially increasing barrel life and extending accuracy (extend, NOT improve!)

3. Reducing pressure so powder charge can be increased for higher MVs if needed

4. Improving first shot and shot-to-shot consistency

 

The last one is possibly the most important for target shooters and especially F-Class shooters.

The claim Tubb makes about his Bn coating process in particular is that he doesn't see as much vertical spread when shooting a string from cold. That's a big benefit if true.

[dannywayoflife]

Richard states in his video that he sees far less first shot deviation in speed than with un coated bullets as has been said if true that's a big advantage at long range

[gbal]

IF it reduces variance in fps,it is NOT a variable,it is a factor that influences consistency.....it may be a small one....

IF it makes cleaning easier-probably only of factory rifles,as BR etc are so easily cleaned anyhow-it might be a boon to those who clean their rifles.Some of course will see cleaning as potential inconsistency,and maybe if done badly it causes as much inconsistency as not cleaning might.Both 'IF's seem to have some support....

There seems very little direct evidence for direct accuracy(I think meaning precision-smaller groups),although any more consistency IF achieved,in fps must reduce that variance,which is a demonstrated factor in bullet dispersal vertically.

 

For the stalker/casual club shooter/ BN coating is probably not that interesting,unless cleaning properly proves tedious-as in some factory rifles.The precision afficionado might give it a serious look,if cpmpetitive margins are small- and someone wins using it.....in both scenarios,perhaps human nature is as big an issue (variable?) as the absolute merits of BN.

My 6BR with 90Lapua silvers shot 5 in .23 on Sunday,and cleaned in three swipes.so I'm not inclined to scrape it off....

 

As c18rch says,it's a choice.

 

gbal

[DaveT]

As I said before my major 'wish' is for extension in barrel life........if we could re-barrel for apparent USA costs I might not bother but if I do see what I consider to be extended life (longish term project here) then I will be happy.

 

So far I have absolutely no indication of effects on accuracy (good or bad) and was not expecting any....but the amount of effort to coat the bullets is negligible so why not?