Your opinion wanted

[young1982]

I'll shortly be putting in for my first centrefire but still undecided what cal. to go for, this is where you lot come in to help me make the right choice.

Below is what I need in a rifle:

1.It's got to good for foxes as they will make up a large part of my shooting

2.I want to get into F class target shooting so it's got to be suitable for that.

3.And lastly it must be suitable for all deer species as I have friends in Scotland that will take me shooting on their land.

 

I've listed the points in that order as the first two are going to make up the majority of my shooting, I'll only be going two Scoland once maybe twice a year which is why it's at the bottom of the list.

 

Thanks to anyone that can help

ATB

[duey]

young1982

 

the last two of your three are easier to group together but when you what one rifle that encompasses

Deer Stalking

F Class ( up to 1000yds)

Foxing

 

you will need at least a 6mm caliber probably a 6.5mm would be better and then you have the problem of getting it passed for foxing alone and not whilst out stalking

 

AND

 

to add to all of this you will be a first timer with a centerfire IN WALES !!!!!!!!

 

try the following calibers, in no perticular order,

 

6BR

6.5 x 55

6.5 x 47

.243

.243 Ackley

25/06 ??? (F Class? )

.308 ??? ( foxing alone)

7mm-08

 

 

as I said this list is endless due to your criteria

 

Try contacting your FEO and run by him your proposed ideas and a list of possible calibers to suit and see what they say

 

Also as an aside you will have to have some quality optics to go with the rifle mainly due to the amount of elevation required to get you out to a 1000yds succesfully and repeatedly and due to other disciplins variable as well look at

S&B

Leupold

Nightforce

as your main options for required elevation and magnification variation

also

Swarofski

Ziess

Bushnell

 

to name but a few

 

Good luck

 

Ian

[young1982]

Ian,

Thanks for the reply very informative, I'll have to look into the calibers you suggested.

What caliber would you go for if you were going to use it for foxes and long range targets?

ATB

Young

[shrek]

Alrite mate, its a tough situation if its yout first ceterfire, im in the lucky situation that ive got my 308 for foxes alone, however as ian says talk to your firearms officer about it expalin your situation that you dont want two rifles for different situations

 

For a first workhorse of a rifle i would recommend a 308 (if you can get it for foxes), easy to load for, alot of bullets to chose from and legal for everthing walking on 4 legs in this country

 

Im now using a 308 and a 6mmBR and once ive got loads sorted i want to try and get into F Class with the 308 and use the 6mmBR for everthing else.

 

Hope this helps

[young1982]

Alrite mate, its a tough situation if its yout first ceterfire, im in the lucky situation that ive got my 308 for foxes alone, however as ian says talk to your firearms officer about it expalin your situation that you dont want two rifles for different situations

 

For a first workhorse of a rifle i would recommend a 308 (if you can get it for foxes), easy to load for, alot of bullets to chose from and legal for everthing walking on 4 legs in this country

 

Im now using a 308 and a 6mmBR and once ive got loads sorted i want to try and get into F Class with the 308 and use the 6mmBR for everthing else.

 

Hope this helps

 

Shrek,

 

How do you rate the 6mmBR?

 

Cheers mate

[Alycidon]

6mmBR, very accurate round, good to about 600 yards tops with the right bullet. Vermincinerator has more info on it as he has a Cooper in it that may even be for sale.

 

A

[Guest wireviz]

[i Think you would be better with the 6.5 55 or 6.5 x 284 they will do what you want with out compromise .It is also the calibre that the home office have put at the top of the list for all round calibre.

[Vermincinerator]

Hi Young,

The 6mmBR is an excellent cartridge but in stantard twist rate it will run out of steam at 500-600yds however with a fast twist barrel and 105-115grn bullets it will do the business at 1000yds and holds several F-class records in the USA and Canada.

My choice if i were in your shoes would be a straight .243, recommended for fox control in the Home Office guidelines and when handloaded with 90grn Lapua Scenars will be on target at 1000.

Although my personal choice would be 6.5-284 for F-class you might have problems getting that passe for fox but if thats okay then great, The problem with the 6.5-284 and even a 243 AI for that matter (second choice) is that these cartridges and a fast twist 6mmBR are custom chamberings and do not have rifles readily available of the shelf.

If you have the budget for a custom build then all the better, try for a 6.5-284, if not a .243 and have a .243 AI built

Once you have a 243 granted you can have a 243 Ackley Improved built under a 243 slot, without a variation to your FAC and your .243 fox condition will still stand.

 

Ian.

[auquhollie]

As above speak with your own FLO. 6.5-284 would be the cal of my choice. If not then a 243 and have it reamed out to ackley improved. I have a good friend that shot his 243Ai very well in F class, saying that he now also shoots the 6.5x284.

 

Ads...

[young1982]

Cheers Ian,

Just the answer I was looking for after reading what you said I'm going to go for the .243, the local firearms officer is sound and a hell of a nice bloke so I can't see why I wouldn't get it.

I've got my heart set on a Accuracy International AW so it' going to be my first choice of rifle, failing that I might get a remington 700P LTR if I get bored of saving.

 

Once again thanks for the advice.

ATB

Gethin

[Vermincinerator]

Once you have your sticky little fingers on your new FAC, i reckon your patience for saving will wain rather quickly.

Having said that, if you are thinking about budgetting for an AW, for about half the price of one of them you could have a very nice Remington based custom in whatever calibre you want, which IMO will be a better and more enjoyable rifle.

Dont get me wrong the AIAW is a fantatically robust and hard wearing rifle but with only mediocre accuracy.

A varmint/tactical style custom heavy barrelled and stocked Remington in a competitive calibre with good optics will out shoot a AIAW all day.

 

Ian.

[young1982]

Once you have your sticky little fingers on your new FAC, i reckon your patience for saving will wain rather quickly.

Having said that, if you are thinking about budgetting for an AW, for about half the price of one of them you could have a very nice Remington based custom in whatever calibre you want, which IMO will be a better and more enjoyable rifle.

Dont get me wrong the AIAW is a fantatically robust and hard wearing rifle but with only mediocre accuracy.

A varmint/tactical style custom heavy barrelled and stocked Remington in a competitive calibre with good optics will out shoot a AIAW all day.

 

Ian.

 

Ian,

 

If you were thinking about getting a custom job who would you go to?

I like the look of the AIAW,if I had a custom made with a AI stock would it out shoot a factory made AIAW?

 

Cheers mate

[Vermincinerator]

IMO a custom barrelled Remmy in a AICS stock will be a better shooter the an AW.

The top flight Smiths charge big money for customs on par with what a AW would cost you but there many mid price range makers who will build rifles of equal quality for much less however they dont have the kudos of a rifle built by either Norman Clark or Callum Ferguson, Have a word with northernchris i am sure he can help you.

 

Ian

[shrek]

Sorry for not gettin back to you mate, yea as the lads above has said the 6mmBR is a cracking round, accurate, efficient and a hell of a lot of fun to shoot!

[Finman]

Sorry for not gettin back to you mate, yea as the lads above has said the 6mmBR is a cracking round, accurate, efficient and a hell of a lot of fun to shoot!

 

 

I will second all that has been said about the 6mmBR by all before me: fantastic cartridge. One issue that has not been addressed (I feel) though from your initial query is the need for the rifle to comply with the regulations for hunting deer in Scotland. If I am correct, you can only shoot deer with a 100gn bullet and above. I don' t have the data on hand and I am working from memory, but I don't think that the 6mmBR case capacity can push a 105gn bullet with the appropriate energy (1700ft/lbs) to qualify for this rule. Which is a real pity, because it is the muts nuts as a cartridge and one of my most favourite rifles in my cabinet. Yet, when I go for deer I take the 6.5x55...

 

Best wishes,

 

Finman

 

PS: please do correct me if I got my facts wrong...

[Redfox]

Finmans right on bullets and energy and I have had a 243 for many years, which was my "go to" rifle, but having aquired a 6.5x55 some years ago I take it out most of all.

It does all the 243 will do and a great deal more, super fast varminting with lighter bullets and stop anything right there with the 129 -140gr heavier bullets. It has been one of the most accurate rounds in the world since it was invented before the turn of the century, so very easy to load for and get good results.

Just quote the need to meet Scotish regs and also for foxing you should have no problems at all.

Redfox

[Guest varmartin]

Will careful hand loading and the correct selection of powder the 6MMBR is capable of reaching and exceeding 1700 ft lbs with 100 grain bullets, but as others have said there are more suitable calibres..... but not more accurate calibres

 

My load.....for England..95 Berger over 32 grains Reloader 15 @3065 fps / 1982 ftlbs

[onehole]

Totally agree with Varmartin,s comments and a few posts back regarding Top Smiths,I see little mention of Russell Gall of RG Rifles but Varmatin and I can vouch for top drawer smithing from this gentleman and the results from his work is kudos enough for me and Martin.Best wishes to Russell if you visit this site.Cheers Onehole.

[Finman]

Will careful hand loading and the correct selection of powder the 6MMBR is capable of reaching and exceeding 1700 ft lbs with 100 grain bullets, but as others have said there are more suitable calibres..... but not more accurate calibres

 

My load.....for England..95 Berger over 32 grains Reloader 15 @3065 fps / 1982 ftlbs

 

Hi Martin

 

thanks for the clarification. Perhaps digressing a bit from the original discussion (or perhaps not as this may help young 982 build the right sort of rifle), I would be most interested to learn your 6mmBR barrel length and twist and also load data for 100gn bullets. The most I can get (safely) out of my 23inch, 1:9 twist, varmint contour Border barrel is 3000fps with 87gn bullets/31.8gnVarget (which just about make 1700ft/lbs).

 

best wishes,

 

Finman

[Guest varmartin]

Hi Finman,

 

 

My Rifle has a 26" Kreiger 1~8 twist throated for 105 Amax. With a 269 neck.

 

My loads are HOT and with the extra barrel length over yours, that`s where the extra velocity is achieved.

 

By changing powder from Varget to Reloader 15 you may see a worthwhile improvement giving increased velocity with reduced pressure allowing a hotter load.

 

I dont use any 100 grain bullets but using comparative results from `Quickload` and real time crono readings from 105 Amax, they can reach 1700 easy from my tube.

 

I was pushing 105Amax at 2900 fps and over 1950ftlbs

 

Take care.

[David]

Hi Young 1982. Mike Norris is a very competent riflesmith and his charges are very reasonable. PM me for his number if you wish.

 

David.

[Finman]

Hi Finman,

My Rifle has a 26" Kreiger 1~8 twist throated for 105 Amax. With a 269 neck.

 

My loads are HOT and with the extra barrel length over yours, that`s where the extra velocity is achieved.

 

By changing powder from Varget to Reloader 15 you may see a worthwhile improvement giving increased velocity with reduced pressure allowing a hotter load.

 

I dont use any 100 grain bullets but using comparative results from `Quickload` and real time crono readings from 105 Amax, they can reach 1700 easy from my tube.

 

I was pushing 105Amax at 2900 fps and over 1950ftlbs

 

Take care.

 

 

Cheers Martin,

 

the differences between our rifles explain perhaps also the differences in the load tolerance. I have a standard .272 neck, and it is not throated for a particular bullet, so far as I know. I shall give RL15 a go, thanks for the tip. I just bought a tub of Varget though and it may be a while before I have the chance. By my reckoning, I think that the most I can hope for from mine is an acceptable load for the 95gn Vmax and the like. Shall have a go and feed back.

 

Again, thanks for the information

 

Best wishes,

 

Finman

[Guest varmartin]

Your welcome Fin..any time