Savage

[kindwart]

Hi guys Ive been looking for a Savage 223 or a Savage action I've asked in wants section on this site but no joy, what I want is a heavy barreled 1 in 7 or 8 twist to shoot 80 grn bullets at 500 yds and above, I know I can buy a savage FTR but I cant afford a new one as I have just had a 6mmBR built and I need a heavy profile barrel as my 6.5 Fclass rifle barrel is shot out, and used Savage FTR's are like hens teeth. So what I would like to do is buy a heavy plofile barrel and put it in a good action, if any one out there has a decent Savage action possibly a short one knocking about in a drawer could you please let me know. Also I would like to know the best place to pick up the barrel I descibed earlier. My last question is these Axis actions, are they any good for a donor action, a used one can be bought for £250 £300 I have read a review about them in a mag by Chris Parkin and he said they could be stripped down and had same barrel nut and changable bolt face as the older models, If any one has input for me it would be greatly appreciated.

Regards and a Happy new Year.

Tony.

[Hatzi]

Just because you can remove the barrel and replace it, i cant think of any reason you would want to use it as a donor. It is a cheap savage rifle for a cheap stalking or foxing gun, triggers are hefty at best and they dont have the same features as the model 10/12 actions that make them better.

 

There are MANY Better actions that can be used as a donor for a better gun that have a wider variety of stocks and triggers available for them. In the US savage barrels are easily available to replace shot out guns and the barrel nut facility although convenient for a change barrel facility, is used here purely as it is easy and cheap to build a gun with simpler chambering and headspacing procedures.

[Laurie]

Savage 3-screw single-shot varmint and match PTA actions are like hen's teeth - I've been trying to get one without luck for around two years. Your chance of getting a cheap shot-out Model 12 Long-Range Precision Varmint, Target, BR, or F/TR rifle is not quite as low, but is only marginally higher unless you're willing to pay £1,000 or more. Most of the .223 Rem LRPVs are 1-9 inch twist. Only a small handful of 1-7 inch twist 223 Rem F/TR rifles have made it to the UK - it may be as low as single figures. 99% of the Savage 12 F/TRs here are in .308 Win. If you can get one with a shot-out barrel, Stuart Anselm at Osprey Rifles might be able to help with a calibre switch - barrel aside, it's a change of bolt-head which is a five minute job - as he may be able to source the 223 case-head dia. component for you.

 

If / when you come to rebarrel same in the UK, you'll find that amost every gunsmith will decline to use a pre-chambered barrel and the headspace nut. They will MOST strongly advise the use of an appropriate length, profile, and twist rate barrel blank threaded and chambered the 'usual way', and throated to suit the bullet(s) you plan to shoot. The factory 223 Rem F/TR rifle with 7-inch twist is throated for 80s seated rather deep, not brilliantly suited to the longer 80gn VLDs and is useless for 90gn VLDs which is what you get a seven-inch twist for as opposed to an eight which better suits most 80 grainers.

 

Having done rather a lot of mid to long distance F/TR with two custom Savage PTA based rifles in .223 Rem, I'd recommend you should be set up either to shoot the 80.5gn Berger BT Fullbore or a Berger 90-grainer. Berger now only makes one such model, the VLD, having withdrawn the LR BT version which many 223 LR aficionados much preferred. Many people cannot get the 90gn VLD to perform. A really good 1-8 inch twist barrel allied to the 80.5gn bullet is probably optimum for 600 yards and beyond for most people, although if the shooting is at the small F-Class target and is more 'beyond' than at 600 yards, I'd recommend forgetting 223 and using 308 Win instead. Much less work and trouble!

[kindwart]

Savage 3-screw single-shot varmint and match PTA actions are like hen's teeth - I've been trying to get one without luck for around two years. Your chance of getting a cheap shot-out Model 12 Long-Range Precision Varmint, Target, BR, or F/TR rifle is not quite as low, but is only marginally higher unless you're willing to pay £1,000 or more. Most of the .223 Rem LRPVs are 1-9 inch twist. Only a small handful of 1-7 inch twist 223 Rem F/TR rifles have made it to the UK - it may be as low as single figures. 99% of the Savage 12 F/TRs here are in .308 Win. If you can get one with a shot-out barrel, Stuart Anselm at Osprey Rifles might be able to help with a calibre switch - barrel aside, it's a change of bolt-head which is a five minute job - as he may be able to source the 223 case-head dia. component for you.

 

If / when you come to rebarrel same in the UK, you'll find that amost every gunsmith will decline to use a pre-chambered barrel and the headspace nut. They will MOST strongly advise the use of an appropriate length, profile, and twist rate barrel blank threaded and chambered the 'usual way', and throated to suit the bullet(s) you plan to shoot. The factory 223 Rem F/TR rifle with 7-inch twist is throated for 80s seated rather deep, not brilliantly suited to the longer 80gn VLDs and is useless for 90gn VLDs which is what you get a seven-inch twist for as opposed to an eight which better suits most 80 grainers.

 

Having done rather a lot of mid to long distance F/TR with two custom Savage PTA based rifles in .223 Rem, I'd recommend you should be set up either to shoot the 80.5gn Berger BT Fullbore or a Berger 90-grainer. Berger now only makes one such model, the VLD, having withdrawn the LR BT version which many 223 LR aficionados much preferred. Many people cannot get the 90gn VLD to perform. A really good 1-8 inch twist barrel allied to the 80.5gn bullet is probably optimum for 600 yards and beyond for most people, although if the shooting is at the small F-Class target and is more 'beyond' than at 600 yards, I'd recommend forgetting 223 and using 308 Win instead. Much less work and trouble!

Many thanks for the info Laurie, already have a 308, 6.5 x 55 (shot out barrel) 6mmBr, and I thought I would have a 223 to complete the full set so to speak, so I thought I would buy a Rifle I could rebuild myself and hunt around for a barrel to suite my requirements from a manufacturer, and save myself £400 for fitting also having a bit of fun doing it. Seemes like I'll have to keep on looking.

Regards & a Happy New Year.

Tony

[1066]

Having read through Laurie’s post I find the situation somewhat disappointing. As a self-confessed Savage fan I think half the charm of the breed is the ability to be able to change barrels/headspace with a spanner.

A few years ago I bought an F12 in 6.5x284 from Garlands, the then UK agent, and also ordered a 6mmBR pre-fit barrel from Shilens in the US. At one time I had one action and two barrels and swapped them about depending at what range I was shooting. I then bought a new 12F action, a Sav-2 trigger, Ken Farrell rail and Richards microfit stock, screwed on the Shilen 6mmbr match barrel and ended up with a semi-custom rifle that shoots really well with .3-5 moa groups being "run of the mill" and occasional 5 shot groups squeezing down into .1's

 

Savage still list the 12F action separately on their website for $613 and Shilen currently list pre-fit Stainless select grade match barrels for $400, remember with this system there are no smithing charges, just a spanner and a couple of gauges.

 

Surely at these sort of prices it’s worth investigating the cost of the current export licence, vat and import duty and bolting the bits together yourself.

[The Gun Pimp]

The Savage 'nut' makes barrel swapping tedious. It's much easier to swap barrels with a 'normal' shoulder/action fit - fiddling with headspace gauges not required. But, the advantage was - you could buy a pre-chambered barrel and fit it yourself.

[Laurie]

Allen,

 

I bought a 12 F-Class just like you with the same objective, and one of my F/TR rifles is built around a PTA action that arrived as an action kit alone via Garlands then to Osprey Rifles.

 

Unfortunately try getting either standalone actions or pre-fit barrels these days. There is a UK rifle builder currently investigating the action issue with ATK / Savage to get a good value action to suit his modular rifle builds, but whether the Americans will be prepared to provide an exception to Edgar Brothers exclusive import franchise is the key issue. Past history in Savage's products coming here is unpromising as this is a manufacturer who believes in having a single importer.

 

Setting oneself up as a licensed exporter in the USA is at the least very expensive, as the basic operating licence costs well over $2,000 and each individual export shipment licence comes to several hundred more. This is what has completely killed off exports to us by small stock manufacturers such as Gary Eliseo's CSS outfit and his chassis / tubegun products. The only practical way is for their products to be handled by a professional licensed export agent who can aggregate orders into decent sized shipments and spread the export licence costs over a large number of items. Even this isn't a simple matter as the application requires detailed advanced disclosure allied to product registration and Federal clearance.

 

I know for a fact that Gary Eliseo tried this route using a usually very successful export agent, but it involved so much hassle and there were so many delays in his stocks being actually delivered, he gave up after a year or 18 months of trying with at best half a dozen stock kits actually escaping the US, that he gave up and will now only sell to domestic US customers - with home demand running as it is in the USA now for precision rifle parts and products, many such people can sell everything they make at home without any of this hassle, so why bother?

 

I may be wrong on this, but I also suspect that one has to be domiciled in the USA or be a US domiciled business to obtain the overall licence to become an ITAR goods exporter.

[1066]

"What a bummer" spring to mind. What about buying one (new or used) when out there on holiday and bringing it back as a personal import.?

When I ordered my barrel all I needed, at the time was a slot on my ticket, filled in and "end user" form and paid about $75 export licence. Total cost for an excellent select match grade barrel was £288 including all fees and no fitting charges, around 5 years ago. Different world now I know.

 

Anyone investigated the availability throughout the rest of the EU, I see Millards are the Irish agent (Dublin), France has three agents and even a couple in Bulgaria. Transferring within the EU must be quite easy I would have thought.