.358 Winchester - Tikka 595 Master Sporter ?

[Tiff]

I playing with the idea of getting my 595 Tikka Master Sporter re-barrelled from .308 Win to .358 Win - around a 22" medium profile barrel + muzzle brake. It would be for woodland deer (mostly reds) + boar in the UK & trips to the continent / British Columbia.

 

I've got larger magnums for longer range game, but a 22lbs+ rifle is hardly a bush/woodland rifle for snap standing shots...

 

The more I read about the cartridge the better it sounds, a close to mid range cartridge capable of comfortably handling almost anything with 200-250gr bullets at moderate velocities and mild recoil.

 

I was also considering the .338 Federal, but the .358 Wins read to me like it will do everything the Federal can and then some. Plus the ability to shoot cast lead pistol bullets at moderate velocities sounds fun for cheap short range zeroing & practice.

 

So anybody owned a .358 Win or have any thoughts on the idea?

 

Below are some (camera phone quality - sorry) pictures of the rifle I'm considering having re-barrelled.. I tend not to shoot it much at the moment due the the grade 5 stock being almost too pretty to use for general UK shooting (sad I know...), but as an occasional rifle for special trips, I think it would be great if it did collect a few memorable 'war wounds'.

 

 

 

[brown dog]

Tiff, strikes me as absolutely the wrong rifle to do the rebarrel to. That rifle is many things, but it's not the basis for a brush snap shooting sporter.

 

And the wrong calibre; it's too 'faddy' - a basic practicality issue:

 

When my thinking was going down this route I got my chit done for 9.3x62.

 

338 Fed etc look great.......until you run out of/ lose/ have confiscated your ammo in europe or africa........try finding replacement ammo.

 

9.3x62 is all over colonial africa (hangover from German colonies) and, obviously, all the european boar hunting locations.

 

And although it's so close to 375 H&H that it's not worth quibling. you'll have no problem getting it conditioned for large deer in UK.

[Ronin]

CRF Winchester is way to go with larger cal...

 

Wrong rifle as BD alludes to

 

375 HH my choice or 9.3 x62

[Ronin]

CRF Winchester is way to go with larger cal...

 

Wrong rifle as BD alludes to

 

375 HH my choice or 9.3 x62

 

Maybe 35 Whelen

 

 

Hmm, I got a CRF Winny here........

[marty]

Please don't alter this rare and beautiful rifle , if you need to mod a rifle get a REmmy 700 . I have a n M65 Super Sporter , I would never think about altering it. When the barrel loses it's accuracy it will get a new identical barrel , I know .308 is a plain Jane calibre but it's the one it was made in .I would rather have one in 6.5 x 55 but it isn't.I keep looking , there must be one somewhere , I can wait.

[gbal]

I agree with everyone here-don't use the Tikka as donor.

Your useage is UK woodland reds,boar,Europe and perhaps BC.(so eg not Africa.)

You also mention a brush/standing rifle.

I can see the 358 OK,and if you like lever action for your applications,then the Browning BLR was so chambered (as well as Win 88 and Savage 99,though you have little chance of finding one of those,in UK).

If you want a bolt action,there is of course more choice,and the 35 Whelen would come into play(358 is essentially a shortened Whelen).BLR is available in other calibres too.

Re ammo supply-it should not be a serious problem,but limited ....best to actually check the current position for any such cartridges...eg only A square and Norma load the 9.3x62 in N America,but it is popular in Europe.The 358 incidentally is known as the 8.8x51 in Europe,and ammo will be so marked.Winchester still load it in USA as 358.

Save the Tikka-you should be able to get a decent rifle as above for the same ball park cost as a rebarrel on some donor action.Add in BRNO 375 maybe? BC has some big beasts! The definitive account of American Hunting Rifles,and their actual use, is Boddington,though he does not cover all european ones.

"In the Browning lever gun,the .358 makes a perfect wild boar rifle,and a very fine choice for elk and moose in fairly close cover.A lever Browning in 3006 or 7rem mag would of course be suitable" None are ideal for the very largest bears (If BC encompasses such beasts).

There is,as usual,a fair choice of cartridge and rifle,and as ever,compromise.

 

Read Rick Ryal's "The mystery of the 358" for rather a comprehensive pro/con on this cartridge,with comparisons.

 

Gbal

[brown dog]

I agree with everyone here-don't use the Tikka as donor.

Your useage is UK woodland reds,boar,Europe and perhaps BC.(so eg not Africa.)

You also mention a brush/standing rifle.

I can see the 358 OK,and if you like lever action for your applications,then the Browning BLR was so chambered (as well as Win 88 and Savage 99,though you have little chance of finding one of those,in UK).

If you want a bolt action,there is of course more choice,and the 35 Whelen would come into play(358 is essentially a shortened Whelen).BLR is available in other calibres too.

Re ammo supply-it should not be a serious problem,but limited ....best to actually check the current position for any such cartridges...eg only A square and Norma load the 9.3x62 in N America,but it is popular in Europe.The 358 incidentally is known as the 8.8x51 in Europe,and ammo will be so marked.Winchester still load it in USA as 358.

Save the Tikka-you should be able to get a decent rifle as above for the same ball park cost as a rebarrel on some donor action.Add in BRNO 375 maybe? BC has some big beasts! The definitive account of American Hunting Rifles,and their actual use, is Boddington,though he does not cover all european ones.

"In the Browning lever gun,the .358 makes a perfect wild boar rifle,and a very fine choice for elk and moose in fairly close cover.A lever Browning in 3006 or 7rem mag would of course be suitable" None are ideal for the very largest bears (If BC encompasses such beasts).

There is,as usual,a fair choice of cartridge and rifle,and as ever,compromise.

 

Gbal

 

I challenge you to find a provincial seller of 358 ammo in France, Germany, Hungary, Croatia, the Czech Republic or Austria.

Now re-run the experiment with 9.3x62.

 

The truth of the matter is a heavy bullet from a 308 will do everything Tiff has described. Never aware of anything other than 308 or 3006 in use when I lived in Canada. One of my newfis even used to (illegally) successfully hunt moose with a 22LR.

 

9.3 gives stretch potential against things that want to colour you red; such as brown bear. It also keeps options open for african beasties later on. With NBTs, it doesn't give a trajectory wildly different to a 308.

 

Get anything 'weird' or niche and you're just looking for heartache later on when you're at one airport and the ammo's arrived at another.

[gbal]

I challenge you to find a provincial seller of 358 ammo in France, Germany, Hungary, Croatia, the Czech Republic or Austria.

Now re-run the experiment with 9.3x62.

 

The truth of the matter is a heavy bullet from a 308 will do everything Tiff has described.

 

I did not claim otherwise-nor perhaps have you checked provincial BC.How is provincial UK ? Being the Sabbath,i can't check-I accept 'Provincial' can be interpreted to suit any purpose.I did say it would be sensible to check availability by location for any cartridge.

My main point was there is a choice of action-and for a woodland brush fast handling rifle (as Tiff said) , the lever action should not be discounted.See Boddington,usually on the ball..Of course,some may not chose this action.

I agree that a heavy bullet 308 is adequate,3006 has to have an edge for boar etc,and the 308 is quite a versatile loading cartridge-so some compromise is reduced-for UK use.As I said,choices exist-adequacy is available,perfection elusive.As with rifles.

:-)

Gbal

 

PS I note you didn't settle on the 308,which is marginal in some applications.

[brown dog]

I did not claim otherwise-nor perhaps have you checked provincial BC.

 

Think you'll find a wide and exotic choice of 3006, or 308, or 3006 with an alternative choice of 308 or 3006. Might find the odd box of 270. oh and 30-30 and 300winmag. After that, 12g.

 

In fact, 300 win mag - that's probably the single pan-world sporting calibre.

[Tiff]

Thanks very much for all the information. After reading http://www.chuckhawks.com/358Win_mystery.htm the .358 Win still sounds like a great cartridge to me. It would have to be in a bolt action though, as I'm not a great lever action fan.

 

However I take the point about ammo avaliabilty and how it is an extra worry should it go missing in transit etc. or get mislaid on location. Something I hadn't really considered and that would truly mess up a trip!

 

Personally I find the Tikka Master Sporter stock about perfect, especially for standing annd snap shooting. Although this may be particular to me, due to using the identical Sako Finnfire Range on a weekly basis shooting county level LSR. It is also very similar to my TRG, so the familiarity is there when under pressure.

 

A couple of friends have CZ 550's in .375 H&H and to be honest while it's fun to shoot, I'm not overly keen on the rifle and it's recoil. Although they were fairly stout 300gr loads in light synthetic rifles.

 

Overall for the time being I think I'll leave the Tikka (& .358 Win) alone and look more long term saving up for maybe a double rifle, in a more continental loading (i.e. 9.3x62, 9.3x74R) or .375 H&H. My next trip to B.C. visiting family will hopefully be in the spring, but will be very much longer range orientated with my TRG 42 - A very traditional european hunting rifle.......

[gbal]

Think you'll find a wide and exotic choice of 3006, or 308, or 3006 with an alternative choice of 308 or 3006. Might find the odd box of 270. oh and 30-30 and 300winmag. After that, 12g.

 

 

 

In fact, 300 win mag - that's probably the single pan-world sporting calibre.

Yes Matt,but the fair comparison I was making is:what is the provincial supply of 9.3x62 -your pet-in BC.Not good,I would guess.

Last time I checked there were 97 308 commercial loads,and 87 30-06 available in USA,at least,so of course it is available in BC.

But how about 9.3x62.There are 64 300 Win Mag offerings.Of course none of this guarantees any one shop will have what you want,but it's a guide.

As I said,check locale/local availability,and take/arrange a decent supply if possible,and that applies to really heavy 308 too,as there isn't much above 190 grain,though Rem and Fed,eg do a 220g loading in 30-06,which I would imagine is reasonably available for planned trips.

Last time I was in a gunshop in Europe in boar territory,30-06 was available and popular,I think BARs were highly regarded,as were the expected eurocartridges-but in doubles or bolt only,at a price often.

I have had enough fun locating 9x56 M/S ammo ,to opt for anything peculiar,in both of its senses.

Gbal

[Ratwhiskers]

l'm with Andy on the .375H/H, but you mention recoil, so......

 

Without doing all the math, you would have two useful options with this....

 

H4895 60% rule or Trail Boss reduced loads.

 

Both would give viable hunting loads but reduce recoil to a more than manageable level.

[Tiff]

l'm with Andy on the .375H/H, but you mention recoil, so......

 

Without doing all the math, you would have two useful options with this....

 

H4895 60% rule or Trail Boss reduced loads.

 

Both would give viable hunting loads but reduce recoil to a more than manageable level.

Thanks, I hadn't thought of that option. Could be useful on very occasional summer roe and boar over here.

 

Recoil isn't a problem, so much as I don't want to be kicked to death if I can avoid it. The more I think about it, the greater the appeal a .375 H&H has - especially in a double rifle with muzzle porting like some of the modern european rifles have. Time for more reading on the subject!

[Bushdog]

Tiff, if you want to try a wood-stocked CZ .375 H&H with 235gn pills, let me know - I think its pretty manageable, and as pointed out above, ammo is fairly easy to come by. I've also found it a very easy cartridge to reload for and seems to shoot all bullet weights to much the same place.

[Tiff]

Excellent, thanks Bushdog. I'll drop you a pm closer to the next shoot.

 

Thanks,

 

Tiff

[IanF]

Tiff,

 

Having done the same thinking routine, I went for .375HH in a medium weight - since then it has trundled around the

world, providing a long succession of one shot kills on everything from Mouse to Moose.

 

Interestingly, there is very little meat damage from these medium calibres when used on smaller animals - mostly due

to a combination of low velocity and heavy, stout construction bullets. Have had great results with the Barnes TTSX and

the H4895 that Ratty mentioned. With a Pachmayr decelerator or limb-saver recoil pad fitted, there is marginally less shove

than a 12 bore - very easily controllable.

 

As ever, if you get to drop by Axminster, I have a couple private ranges and the offer to try this calibre is there.

 

I will second the thoughts about re-barrelling the the Tikka Master - a) it would be abhorrent & an offence in the eyes of the Lord & it would be as suited to your intended purpose, as a BR stock is to shooting sticks......... Yup, we got loong memories down 'yer!

 

Rgds

 

Ian