Advice needed - Whats the maximum bullet weight in .22 Hornet a 1-16 twist will accurately shoot?

[Jamie]

As above folks,

I'm looking at CZ 527 in .22 Hornet tomorrow.

Among the usual worries of buying a used rifle, i'm concerned about it's ability to stabilise a "heavyish" bullet with a 1-16" twist.

The main reason for getting a .22 Hornet was due to issues of my hmr blowing about in just a breeze.

So I'm after experiences people have had with the .22 Hornet, and what is it's upper bullet weight limit that can shoot accurately in a 1 in 16" twist??

Some opinions would be appreciated folks.

 

 

 

 

[pork chop]

are cz not a 1in14,pritty sure i read that as i thought they a 1in16 too.if they are a 14 it would handle a 50 gr bullet ok,i'v just had mine two weeks now and it's doing very well with 35gr vmax but going to use 40gr vmax when i start loading

[henryo]

Look for bullets that are short for their weight. Sierra makes 40gr and 45gr soft points for the Hornet in either .223" or .224" diameter. Hornady makes a 45gr Hornet bullet and apparently their 50gr SP SX (not the standard soft point) stabilises in the 16" twist.

Also consider the ability to feed from the magazine. Seating bullets deep will reduce precious powder capacity.

[Chris-NZ]

Look for bullets that are short for their weight. .

 

 

That might ensure stabilisation but you're really not gaining much in the way of BC/wind drift

[247sniper]

Hi,

 

I have a CZ527 in .22 Hornet (1/16 twist) it stabilizes the 50 grain SPSX bullet no problem but is shoots the 40 grain V-Max the best and that IMO is by far the best bullet to use in the Hornet. It shoots far flatter then the 35 grain V-Max and is so much better in the wind then any of the other common bullets, even better in the wind the the heavyier 50's!

 

Remember its no about the weight of the bullet that causes stabilization issues, its about bullet length!

 

Hope this helps.

 

Steve.

[Jagged 77]

I had good luck with the hornady 50gr SP's out of mine, great on rabbits and fox. The 40gr v-max was also very accurate but too long for the magazine.

[kent]

Jamie,

stick to 45 grn Sierra hornet bullets for now till you gain more experience over time, they will do all you ask of them and far more. Most important of all you will not get them into the rifling and if you make them to std spec the mag wont need altering. The best choice in the longer bullets is the lighter yet higher BC 40 grn v-max, you wont drive them faster than a std 45 due to the limitations of the case, though the BC will reduce wind drift some and drop some- its not going to be dramatically noticeable till you get out past around 170-200 yds. Avoid 35 v-max unless you want a more frangible round for around 100 yds ish poor BC gives it little gain on a HMR and it looses velocity very rapidly compared to the std 45grn Seirra.

The CZ is 1-16 twist and is a tight barrel between the old tighter .223 spec and todays .224, it should perform best with .224 bullets, though some have reported good results with the .223 version of the Seirra Hornet bullet

[Jamie]

Cheers for all the responses fella's, appreciated as usual. And advice duely noted

[247sniper]

I can and you should be able to drive the 40 grain V-max well over 3000ftps, mine is doing 3019ftps. I can also drive the 50 Grain SPSX Over 3000 ftps.

 

3000 + ftps and a 40 grain V-Max with only 13.2 grains of powder is awesome!

 

Best combination for the hornet!

 

Steve.

[Jamie]

I can and you should be able to drive the 40 grain V-max well over 3000ftps, mine is doing 3019ftps. I can also drive the 50 Grain SPSX Over 3000 ftps.

 

3000 + ftps and a 40 grain V-Max with only 13.2 grains of powder is awesome!

 

Best combination for the hornet!

 

Steve.

Sounds the dogs Steve!

What sort of grouping do you get with that "hot load" at 100 yards?

I sold my hmr today so i'm chomping at the bit!!

[247sniper]

Sounds the dogs Steve!

What sort of grouping do you get with that "hot load" at 100 yards?

I sold my hmr today so i'm chomping at the bit!!

 

It really is mate.

 

Its not a hot load, 13.2 grains of Lil-gun results in low pressures, thats the thing with Lil-gun is that you get great velocities with low chamber pressures.

 

Steve.

[247sniper]

One bug hole groups at 100 yards is the normal, im so impressed with the little cartridges accuracy and performance! Love it !

[Jamie]

One bug hole groups at 100 yards is the normal, im so impressed with the little cartridges accuracy and performance! Love it !

I feel like a kid all excited!!

Especially as i just bagged 2 tubs of "lil Gun". Rare in itself, (at the present time..) but also at a good price!

I'm struggling to find new brass though, so i may well have to buy new rounds to try-out and keep the cases...

I've also been given some Norma 45 grain, boat tail soft points, so will probably use them to start with.

However, Did you have to mod the mag, or single shot load the 40 grain V-max rounds due to the rounds being "over-length"??

[kent]

Don't see the point in trying and turn a Hornet into a .222 rem, most cases wont take 13 + grains, even with a long drop 12.8 seems max with RWS brass. My mind is more based around achieving 2800- 2900 but with the very best SD (850 ft ASL). there is some unusual stuff that goes on with the hornet which I have to fully get my head round the why bit as yet BUT unlike most rounds dropping bullet weigh has yet to show me any increase for equal charge weights with the exception of the 35's.

[Jamie]

Don't see the point in trying and turn a Hornet into a .222 rem, most cases wont take 13 + grains, even with a long drop 12.8 seems max with RWS brass. My mind is more based around achieving 2800- 2900 but with the very best SD (850 ft ASL). there is some unusual stuff that goes on with the hornet which I have to fully get my head round the why bit as yet BUT unlike most rounds dropping bullet weigh has yet to show me any increase for equal charge weights with the exception of the 35's.

 

I must admit to being a tad excited about owning a .22 Hornet, mainly as it's just so versatile when you reload.

To be honest i don't want to end up with a very hot round, but have to put up with excessive noise. I have enough of that with my .204 Ruger....

I've tried to get some details of the rounds i was given, but can't find any? They came in a black, old looking Norma box. I can make out the brand and the "BT" which coincides with the boatail. But they don't seem to exist on the Norma site

Not had a response from the person who gave me them so can't confirm them. Other than they are definately .22 cal, in .224" and are 45 grains.

I'll take a picture of box and a round later and see if any of you fella's can shed any light

Just to add, having looked at the Edgar Brothers site, the latest CZ 527 .22 Hornet's are a 1-14 twist.

[247sniper]

I'm not trying to turn my .22 Hornet into a .222, I can fit 13.8 grains of powder in my winchester cases but accuracy and most concistent speeds are found at 13.2 grains. Like I said with Lil-gun powder you achive excellent velocities with minimal chamber pressures. The bonus is you CAN achive almost .222 performance with only 13 grains of powder ! Lol.

 

I too have a .204, whilst it is by far the superior in terms of accuracy,MV,energy and ballistics it does use twice as much powder to achive it.

 

.22 Hornet were limited years ago to velocities, bullet/powder chooises and basically overall performance but with modern day bullets and powders, it has had a new spring into its step and into the smaller CF cartridge world.

 

Steve.

[gbal]

I'm not trying to turn my .22 Hornet into a .222, I can fit 13.8 grains of powder in my winchester cases but accuracy and most concistent speeds are found at 13.2 grains. Like I said with Lil-gun powder you achive excellent velocities with minimal chamber pressures. The bonus is you CAN achive almost .222 performance with only 13 grains of powder ! Lol.

I too have a .204, whilst it is by far the superior in terms of accuracy,MV,energy and ballistics it does use twice as much powder to achive it.

.22 Hornet were limited years ago to velocities, bullet/powder chooises and basically overall performance but with modern day bullets and powders, it has had a new spring into its step and into the smaller CF cartridge world.

Steve.

Steve,

Some savvy shooters are getting very good 22 Hornet performance-an apparent transformation of the old obsolete performance.

You said you got one hole bug groups at 100 yard with the Hornet,but also that the 204 outclasses the Hornet in accuracy (and everything else,of course),so does the Hornet start to lose in accuracy beyond 100 yards (the 222 does not),and you start to pay the price for your (powder) cost savings?

[kent]

I must admit to being a tad excited about owning a .22 Hornet, mainly as it's just so versatile when you reload.

To be honest i don't want to end up with a very hot round, but have to put up with excessive noise. I have enough of that with my .204 Ruger....

I've tried to get some details of the rounds i was given, but can't find any? They came in a black, old looking Norma box. I can make out the brand and the "BT" which coincides with the boatail. But they don't seem to exist on the Norma site

Not had a response from the person who gave me them so can't confirm them. Other than they are definately .22 cal, in .224" and are 45 grains.

I'll take a picture of box and a round later and see if any of you fella's can shed any light

Just to add, having looked at the Edgar Brothers site, the latest CZ 527 .22 Hornet's are a 1-14 twist.

Check it when you get it and I will be surprised if it don't turn in 16. Those Normas are unlikely to suit, hornet 45's are far shorter bullets and you need to be aware of the danger of stuffing bullets into the lands, for this reason alone stick to std stuff for now

[247sniper]

The .22 hornet does not loose accuracy past 100 yards, but it does get effected by wind more due to lower speeds and lower BC bullets, but in calm conditions groups remain great. The .222 will perform better in winds due to that having greater velocities and slightly higher BC bullets, like wise my .204 will out perform any .222 in terms of ballistics dude to having far greater velocities combined with far higher BC bullets.

 

Steve.

[kent]

I must admit to being a tad excited about owning a .22 Hornet, mainly as it's just so versatile when you reload.

To be honest i don't want to end up with a very hot round, but have to put up with excessive noise. I have enough of that with my .204 Ruger....

I've tried to get some details of the rounds i was given, but can't find any? They came in a black, old looking Norma box. I can make out the brand and the "BT" which coincides with the boatail. But they don't seem to exist on the Norma site

Not had a response from the person who gave me them so can't confirm them. Other than they are definately .22 cal, in .224" and are 45 grains.

I'll take a picture of box and a round later and see if any of you fella's can shed any light

Just to add, having looked at the Edgar Brothers site, the latest CZ 527 .22 Hornet's are a 1-14 twist.

Check it when you get it and I will be surprised if it don't turn in 16. Those Normas are unlikely to suit, hornet 45's are far shorter bullets and you need to be aware of the danger of stuffing bullets into the lands, for this reason alone stick to std stuff for now

I'm not trying to turn my .22 Hornet into a .222, I can fit 13.8 grains of powder in my winchester cases but accuracy and most concistent speeds are found at 13.2 grains. Like I said with Lil-gun powder you achive excellent velocities with minimal chamber pressures. The bonus is you CAN achive almost .222 performance with only 13 grains of powder ! Lol.

 

I too have a .204, whilst it is by far the superior in terms of accuracy,MV,energy and ballistics it does use twice as much powder to achive it.

 

.22 Hornet were limited years ago to velocities, bullet/powder chooises and basically overall performance but with modern day bullets and powders, it has had a new spring into its step and into the smaller CF cartridge world.

 

Steve.

Yes Winchester has higher capacity, I don't find more powder equals more speed just more consistency personally I achieved 2933 as a high velocity from just a start load 10.8 grns unfortunately the low was 2722! This 2900 is about as fast as I can or indeed want push 40s or 45's. Again working up loads gave a high max at start then a reduction in the middle bands finally heading back up to equal the faster shots with start load but with greater consistency. Said it before but there is some funny stuff happens with Hornets

Although pressure with std loads is around 10,000 cup less with Lilgun than say H110 on max loads, you are still dealing with a thin case and in the case of someone who only recently started I am not prepared to recommend high capacity fills, pistol primers or non std length bullets (it could all end badly), yes if you fully understand the process and the risk all well and good. It must also be remembered that powder (especially one designed for the .410 shotgun) might yield substantially different results batch to batch, all fine if you fully understand what you are about and take proper precautions.

Still the Hornet wont become a .222 and there is much more to be said for the triple when downloaded than the Hornet stretched beyond its usual limits to my mind at least. In deed RWS TMS factory ammo @ 2550 fps with a 45 grn bullet seemed to manage most things in the field under 200 yds for me when I was harvesting brass

[Jamie]

Check it when you get it and I will be surprised if it don't turn in 16. Those Normas are unlikely to suit, hornet 45's are far shorter bullets and you need to be aware of the danger of stuffing bullets into the lands, for this reason alone stick to std stuff for now

Yes Winchester has higher capacity, I don't find more powder equals more speed just more consistency personally I achieved 2933 as a high velocity from just a start load 10.8 grns unfortunately the low was 2722! This 2900 is about as fast as I can or indeed want push 40s or 45's. Again working up loads gave a high max at start then a reduction in the middle bands finally heading back up to equal the faster shots with start load but with greater consistency. Said it before but there is some funny stuff happens with Hornets

Although pressure with std loads is around 10,000 cup less with Lilgun than say H110 on max loads, you are still dealing with a thin case and in the case of someone who only recently started I am not prepared to recommend high capacity fills, pistol primers or non std length bullets (it could all end badly), yes if you fully understand the process and the risk all well and good. It must also be remembered that powder (especially one designed for the .410 shotgun) might yield substantially different results batch to batch, all fine if you fully understand what you are about and take proper precautions.

Still the Hornet wont become a .222 and there is much more to be said for the triple when downloaded than the Hornet stretched beyond its usual limits to my mind at least. In deed RWS TMS factory ammo @ 2550 fps with a 45 grn bullet seemed to manage most things in the field under 200 yds for me when I was harvesting brass

 

Kent, when you say, "Those Normas are unlikely to suit, hornet 45's are far shorter bullets and you need to be aware of the danger of stuffing bullets into the lands, for this reason alone stick to std stuff for now" Could you explain? I don't understand what you mean by standard? I thought those Norma's were "std" type Hornet ammo??

Also, when you say, "stuffing bullets into the lands ". Do you mean the bullet head hitting the lands due to an error causing bad concentricity??

 

And talking of brass, does anyone know of any rfd that has .22 Hornet brass in stock at the moment??

Also, talking of pistol primers being used in the Hornet. Evidently they have a thinner primer cap. Why would you want to use a thinner "pistol" primer in a rifle round when you can just use, (as i will) normal small rifle primers?? Surely your taking a degree of unnecessary risk? If it's cost, surely it can't be much, especially as primers are hardly mega-expensive??

[247sniper]

I have loads of once fired brass if your interested mate.

 

Steve.

[gbal]

The .22 hornet does not loose accuracy past 100 yards, but it does get effected by wind more due to lower speeds and lower BC bullets, but in calm conditions groups remain great. The .222 will perform better in winds due to that having greater velocities and slightly higher BC bullets, like wise my .204 will out perform any .222 in terms of ballistics dude to having far greater velocities combined with far higher BC bullets.

Steve.

Thanks,Steve-that clarifies it nicely.And I can,along with Kent,more or less keep to my view that the Hornet is become a very decent /better and economical 150 yarder,but the 150-250 range is better served by the 222 under typical conditions,and loadings.

Happy bunny-(maybe the only one left out to 250!)

gbal

[henryo]

 

Kent, when you say, "Those Normas are unlikely to suit, hornet 45's are far shorter bullets and you need to be aware of the danger of stuffing bullets into the lands, for this reason alone stick to std stuff for now" Could you explain? I don't understand what you mean by standard? I thought those Norma's were "std" type Hornet ammo??

Also, when you say, "stuffing bullets into the lands ". Do you mean the bullet head hitting the lands due to an error causing bad concentricity??

 

And talking of brass, does anyone know of any rfd that has .22 Hornet brass in stock at the moment??

Also, talking of pistol primers being used in the Hornet. Evidently they have a thinner primer cap. Why would you want to use a thinner "pistol" primer in a rifle round when you can just use, (as i will) normal small rifle primers?? Surely your taking a degree of unnecessary risk? If it's cost, surely it can't be much, especially as primers are hardly mega-expensive??

Are they definitely norma I can't find any info on them? There is/was a 45gr hornet nosler bullet 35487 which came in black boxes. They would be ideal.

 

The problem is if you jam bullets into the lands you can raise the pressure a fair bit. It also means it's possible to pull the bullet out of the case when you try and extract a loaded round, dumping the powder into the action in the process - very annoying.

 

Some people use pistol primers with the hornet because of the milder flame (brisance). Some people swear it gives them better accuracy/consistency. To be honest a mild primer like CCI 400 or Rem 6.5 should work great. I wouldn't use magnum primers.

[Jamie]

I have loads of once fired brass if your interested mate.

 

Steve.

I certainly am Steve if the price is reasonable

I'll pm you

Jamie