.308 to 1000?

[ricky5042]

Hi all is there anyone on here shoot thier 308 out to 1000? iv been told it will be hard to get it to 1000 accurately so i would like some first hand input please and some info as well ie bullet head weight powder and velocity barrel lenth & twist if you can. I dont need your load data just the basics as il do my own testing as i did with my 223.

Thanks

 

Rick

[That bald headed Geordie]

Hi, many years ago I used to shoot a Remington 700 VSSF (1 in 12 twist and I think a 26 inch barrel) for the 1000yd Benchrest shoots at Diggle and used a Sierra 190gr HPBT with N140.

Mv was around 2850fps and was still supersonic at 1000yds. The best group I shot was 5 shots in 8 inches but had a bit of a kick with the heavier bullet.

The reason I used the 190 gr was that I could get the bullet to touch the rifling as the lighter bullets had a bit too much jump for that rifle.

But I needed around 40 moa from a 100yd zero to get on the target, whereas now I shoot a 284 Shehane I only need 25 moa, so my 308 was not the best for ballistic efficiency, but it was a good intro to long range benchrest and f class shoots on a budget.

[Jagged 77]

Hi, many years ago I used to shoot a Remington 700 VSSF (1 in 12 twist and I think a 26 inch barrel) for the 1000yd Benchrest shoots at Diggle and used a Sierra 190gr HPBT with N140.

Mv was around 2850fps and was still supersonic at 1000yds. The best group I shot was 5 shots in 8 inches but had a bit of a kick with the heavier bullet.

The reason I used the 190 gr was that I could get the bullet to touch the rifling as the lighter bullets had a bit too much jump for that rifle.

But I needed around 40 moa from a 100yd zero to get on the target, whereas now I shoot a 284 Shehane I only need 25 moa, so my 308 was not the best for ballistic efficiency, but it was a good intro to long range benchrest and f class shoots on a budget.

 

I think you may have mistyped that muzzle velocity, I'd have though more in the region of 2550 fps given your 40 MOA come up.

 

The right bullet pushed fast enough will do the job, a 1:12 will stabilise heavy bullets, I have tried up to 208 Amax's with good results. I now stick to 175 SMK's with a stout load of n150 out of my 20" .308 and it gets there just fine.

[gunnery]

I think you may have mistyped that muzzle velocity, I'd have though more in the region of 2550 fps given your 40 MOA come up. The right bullet pushed fast enough will do the job, a 1:12 will stabilise heavy bullets, I have tried up to 208 Amax's with good results. I now stick to 175 SMK's with a stout load of n150 out of my 20" .308 and it gets there just fine.

when you say it gets there do you mean it hits the target or it gets there with good groups and consistancy thanks

[kent]

Hi, many years ago I used to shoot a Remington 700 VSSF (1 in 12 twist and I think a 26 inch barrel) for the 1000yd Benchrest shoots at Diggle and used a Sierra 190gr HPBT with N140.

Mv was around 2850fps and was still supersonic at 1000yds. The best group I shot was 5 shots in 8 inches but had a bit of a kick with the heavier bullet.

The reason I used the 190 gr was that I could get the bullet to touch the rifling as the lighter bullets had a bit too much jump for that rifle.

But I needed around 40 moa from a 100yd zero to get on the target, whereas now I shoot a 284 Shehane I only need 25 moa, so my 308 was not the best for ballistic efficiency, but it was a good intro to long range benchrest and f class shoots on a budget.

I think you have got mixed up there, 2850 fps is around 155 scenar speed not 190 grn ! The scenar was my choice and it shot quite well (in relation to other stuff in its class)

[Jagged 77]

when you say it gets there do you mean it hits the target or it gets there with good groups and consistancy thanks

 

I don't use my 308 for 1000 yard paper punching, only plinking at warcop or Sennybridge, it certainly holds minute of tank. If it wasn't accurate or consistent trust me I would have a different load.....

 

[gbal]

I think you may have mistyped that muzzle velocity, I'd have though more in the region of 2550 fps given your 40 MOA come up.

 

The right bullet pushed fast enough will do the job, a 1:12 will stabilise heavy bullets, I have tried up to 208 Amax's with good results. I now stick to 175 SMK's with a stout load of n150 out of my 20" .308 and it gets there just fine.

 

 

Les' mv for the Sierra 190 hpbt with 43.6 Vit N 140,was/is 2558 @ 65 F,and 2531 @ 35 F. Lapua 185 moly scenar ,43.4

VN 140 were 2595 @ 42F

The rifle has shot a few 6 inch groups at 1000y,but rather more 10-12 inches,and the odd ones more,when the Diggle wind catches the shooter out.

Quite a lot of factory 308 s were in this general ball park,with groups under 1moa at 1000 yards possible but not consistently

delivered..

 

Jagged,to get a 308 on a wind par with the 6.5 with a 142 SMK @ 2950,or a 7mm 175@2800,you need:

 

A 220g bullet at 2650 fps

Recoil energies for the three are resp. 9.07,10.70 and 13.15, and equal recoil comes with weight of

16,18.9 and 23.2 lb

Barrel life for the 6.5 might be around 1000,longer for the 7mm,and much longer for the 308.

 

You can see why a 308 isn't really a choice for the competitive shooter at 1000y,but is certainly an option for

the club shooter.A moderated 308 w,in a heavy barrel factory rifle,is quite shootable,as many have found.

Gbal

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gbal]

Hi, many years ago I used to shoot a Remington 700 VSSF (1 in 12 twist and I think a 26 inch barrel) for the 1000yd Benchrest shoots at Diggle and used a Sierra 190gr HPBT with N140.

Mv was around 2850fps and was still supersonic at 1000yds. The best group I shot was 5 shots in 8 inches but had a bit of a kick with the heavier bullet.

The reason I used the 190 gr was that I could get the bullet to touch the rifling as the lighter bullets had a bit too much jump for that rifle.

But I needed around 40 moa from a 100yd zero to get on the target, whereas now I shoot a 284 Shehane I only need 25 moa, so my 308 was not the best for ballistic efficiency, but it was a good intro to long range benchrest and f class shoots on a budget.

 

Les' 308 w data in the VSSF was/is : Sierra MK moly 190 2558 fps at 65F,and 2531 at 35F.185 moly scenar 2595 at 42 F

 

This rifle has shot some 6 inch 1000 y groups,but rather more around 10 inches,and some bigger,when the Diggle wind catches you out.

 

To be the equal in wind deflection of a 6.5 @ 2950 fps,or a 7 @ 2800,a 308 calibre needs 220g @ 2650

Respective recoil energies are 9.07,10.70 and 13.15

Respective weights in lb for equal recoil are. 13.5,18.9 and 23.2

Barrel life is about 1000 rounds,longer,and much longer

 

It is clear why the 308 calibre is not often the choice of the competitive 1000 yard shooter.

But in 308win,it serves the 'club' shooter rather well,and when moderated ,a heavy barrel factory rifle is quite shootable,available and affordable.

Gbal

 

[ejg223]

Last I heard was that they are pushing 210 at a bit over 2700 which isn't too shabby.

edi

[That bald headed Geordie]

Apologies. I got my Mv from the dregs of my tired brain and yes it should have been about the 2600fps and not 2800.

The Remmy was pretty accurate(ish) for a factory rifle but suffered like most with the wind at Diggle which could catch you out very easily.

Also the come up from 100yds may have been slightly less at around 38 moa and yes it hit the target at 1000yds every time, and got (at the time back in 2002) some pretty respectable groups with it). Thanks George for the info (I sold that rifle to gbal).

[That bald headed Geordie]

I think that gbal with the same load did some very good groups at Diggle subsequently with it as well.

[Chris-NZ]

Bit Harsh Edi, doncha think Good for more than 800yds even with std bullets.

 

Here's the plot of a shoot I had at our Nationals a few years back. (S1 and S2 are sighters which were cut). This was std (off the shoulder) NRA shooting, not FTR.

 

 

Even these pissy little 155s are still doing the biz past 800yds.

 

Chris

[ejg223]

Good going Chris, do you still shoot that disciplin?

 

stole that pic off the hide, thought it was exactly what people expect of the 308.

At the moment the pissy little 308 cranked up to the max is giving the F open a bit of a run.

I recon the F open will go 30 cal soon.

edi

[Chris-NZ]

Dunno about F-Class heading to .30cal- 180 Hybrids in 7mil will really cut through the wind and to beat that with a 30 cal will take a very heavy bullet with an even heavier recoil penalty.

 

Nah, don't shoot NRA Target Rifle seriously any more- we lost our local 1000yd range about eight years ago and I wasn't prepared to travel at least three hours to practice. We do have 3 and 600 with electronic targets locally now but I have too many other diversions to go back to it seriously.

 

Chris

[ricky5042]

Thanks for the input guys i will use the 308 to get me into the longer range shooting and then if i really get the bug i may even get another rifle in a better long range round like maybe 7mm 08 for example, do any of you shoot this round?

Thanks

 

Rick

[BillyH]

I'm using a Dyer 155gn doing 1050 from a 30inch spout and pretty happy withthe results at 1000yards. From a bench and if the wind is kind to me, i can keep it in the V ring.

[gbal]

Thanks for the input guys i will use the 308 to get me into the longer range shooting and then if i really get the bu i may even get another rifle in a better long range round like maybe 7mm 08 for example, do any of you shoot this round?

Than

 

 

 

Rick

 

Rick,

If you do want better ballistics,look at 260 rem and similar,rather than the 7-08 despite being on the same basic 308 w case,as is the 260 rem,the7-08 is far more used as a deer round.The fashionable 7s are the 284and variants or the short magnums....and these lead the field at the moment,all 7 s are not equal and the 7-08 is not up there,as a long range contender-just not enough puff for the required high BC bullets required.Keep an eye on what the Fclass and 1000 BR are shooting,they are cutting edge,and check on Accurate shooting( was BR) site for good data on the options.

Gbal

 

[gbal]

[img=http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x264/ejg223/308_traj-1_zpsd056935a.jpg]

Last I heard was that they are pushing 210 at a bit over 2700 which isn't too shabby.

 

edi

 

Indeed it is not shabby at all,and is pretty close to the 220 @ 2650 the math asks for.

We can all get our kicks in somewhat different ways-they must have damn good stocks on those rifles,edi !!

 

[johngarnett]

I regularly, well, as regularly as trips to Bisley allow, shoot 900 and 1K yds using 155 RUAG ammo.

 

Rifle is a 308/762 Quadlock, 30" Walthar barrel, 13T, open aperture sights and off the elbows. I have used homeloads, 155 SMK 2155s and Lapua Scenars with Vit 140 at approx 2950'ish fps.

 

I managed a 50.5 in still'ish wind on a 24" bull at 1K! (once) Just check the long range scores at the Imperial Meeting to see 155 will do the business!

 

Hope this inspires you!!

JohnG

[Laurie]

so far as basic suitability for the cartridge + distance is concerned, F/TR is limited to .223 Rem and .308 Win; GB and GB Commonwealth 'Match Rifle' to .308 Win. F/TR is shot at every distance from 200 to over 1,000 in UK club and league matches, the 'over 1,000' being the end June / beginning July GB F-Class Association league round number 4 at Bisley, the annual 'long-range' event with matches at 1,000, 1,100, and 1,200 yards.

 

'Match Rifle' is only shot over 1,000, 1,100, and 1,200 yard events in the UK at Blair Atholl and Bisley, but is shot at longer ranges elsewhere, a new range in New South Wales, Australia boasting a 1,400 + yard range that hosted matches in an international GB v Oz MR series two or three years ago.

 

So, 308 Win is pefectly capable of hitting a target at 1,000, or even more. Last year's Long-Range Challenge 1,200 yard F/TR winner, Paul Crosbie shot 75.1v ex 100 in a 20-round match shooting 200gn Berger Hybrids if memory serves. The 1k modified Palma F-Class target is used in this event out to 1,200 so the 10.47-inch dia. 5-ring is something around 0.8-MOA. And ..... the conditions were NOT easy. I had somewhere around 23-MOA left wind on at one stage in this match, and mirage was an intermittent issue.

 

The issue is about kit and ammunition ballistics with correct bullet choice vital. Using 308 Win at 1K can be done very successfully using good high-BC handloads with 26-inch barrel factory rifles as Les, the Bald-Headed Geordie points out, and many good, sub-MOA 1k 5-shot groups have been shot in the 'Factory Sporter' class in PSSA 1,000 BR matches at Diggle with 308W Remington PSS type rifles and similar - the Benchers are out there today, and I'd expect some groups ~1-MOA in this class given it's rather windy up there this weekend. However, it's lot better to use specialised rifles, heavy 30-32 inch barrels, and some seriously carefully hand-loaded ammunition using the best ballistic combinations available. At the moment for national / international level F/TR, that's usually the 155.5gn Berger LRBT at 3,050 to 3,100 fps MV; the 185gn Berger LRBT at 2.750 - 2,800 fps MV; the 210gn Berger VLD at 2,600-2,700 fps MV and the 200 / 215 / 230gn Berger Hybrid models, all at 2,500 fps +.

 

As well as barrel length, correct throating to suit the bullet is vital, and the 'real heavies' are shot in rifles more or less built around them.

 

There is a lot of information in the back copies of TargetShooter online magazine, free on:

 

http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/

 

and the AccurateShooter (formerly 6mmBR) website in its articles, 'Gun of the Week' descriptions etc if you hunt around on this massive website and forum.

 

http://www.accurateshooter.com/

 

including this feature about the rifle Vince Bottomely ('The Gun Pimp') built for himslef and later loaned, later still sold to Stuart Anselm, another UKV forum member, and proprietor of Osprey Rifles.

 

http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek0104/

 

With the right rifle and barrel, right chamber and throat and right choice of bullets and ammo prep, many cartridges can do things which surprise short-range sporting shooters. Like how about my F/TR .223 Rem Savage PTA based rifle briefly matching the GB-FCA 1K 20-shot F/TR score record, this achieved in a Blair Atholl match, and on a different occasion putting 10 round into the 1,000 yard target's 4 and 5 rings on Blair's 1,200 yard range (actually 1,224 yards), a copuple of days later letting me shoot the 2nd highest score at 1,100 yards in a US v Scotland 3 distance team match?