hughes.s Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 Can I ask how to weld said plate to a mild steel tube to create a hinge point, plate 4inc dia x 3/8 thick, if I grind a groove in the plate for the tube to sit in, what weld will penitrate tube and plate?. I"ve tried chain and bolts to a frame. Hughes.s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tackb Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 Can I ask how to weld said plate to a mild steel tube to create a hinge point, plate 4inc dia x 3/8 thick, if I grind a groove in the plate for the tube to sit in, what weld will penitrate tube and plate?. I"ve tried chain and bolts to a frame. Hughes.s It depends what type of steel it is ie armox/hardox ? But to be honest when you weld it you get what we call HAZ (heat affected zone) this is a brittle zone along the edge of any weld , you can reduce it by pre and post heating and using certain types of filler material but it's always a battle particulally with hardened steels . I am coded to weld fine grain structural steels in crane jibs so this is a battle I've been fighting for some time ! I can get you a procedure but you will need to let me know the steel type But the vibration from rifle bullet hits is very hard on the welds in my experience ? Russ Ps , I made a target for someone recently and I'm waiting to see how it goes (mild steel tube on to hardox 500 ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughes.s Posted March 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 Thanks Russ, I dont know what type of plate it is, if I did I would have to have some one weld it for me, and who knows what I"ll get. From what you say about stress and fracturing I think its beyound my capabilities. I think its back to hanging it somehow, any suggestions anybody?. Thanks for the advise. Hughes.s ps Does you"r weld have to be tested (ultra sonic, x ray) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilishdave Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 Can I ask how to weld said plate to a mild steel tube to create a hinge point, plate 4inc dia x 3/8 thick, if I grind a groove in the plate for the tube to sit in, what weld will penitrate tube and plate?. I"ve tried chain and bolts to a frame. Hughes.s I would just crank the amps up but your limiting factor will be not wanting to melt the tube if it is thin but if it is not thin it shouldn't be much of a problem Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughes.s Posted March 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 Thanks for replying Dave. Hughes.s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tackb Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 Thanks Russ, I dont know what type of plate it is, if I did I would have to have some one weld it for me, and who knows what I"ll get. From what you say about stress and fracturing I think its beyound my capabilities. I think its back to hanging it somehow, any suggestions anybody?. Thanks for the advise. Hughes.s ps Does you"r weld have to be tested (ultra sonic, x ray) Depends on the weld procedure/ndt requirements but I MPI as a matter of course on all structural welds , I have an independant weld inspector I use if I need to ultrasound etc If I was you I'd just weld it on and when it falls off just weld it on again ? I personally wouldn't just crank the amps up as you will exacerbate the HAZ with undercutting to the edge of the weld . I wouldn't use hard rods/wire I would just use the softest I had to hand to hopefully resist the vibration failures ? Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughes.s Posted March 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 Thank you Russ, Thank you Dave. I"ll give it a go, Russ is stick ok? can you tell me what spec stick to go for "soft"? thanks again, wont trouble you more. Hughes.s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tackb Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 Thank you Russ, Thank you Dave. I"ll give it a go, Russ is stick ok? can you tell me what spec stick to go for "soft"? thanks again, wont trouble you more. Hughes.s Stick or mig/mag whatever you've got ? As for rods I would either go for a bog standard E6013 (asme spec) or maybe find a dissimilar rod ( for welding different materials) use a 2.5 (12 gauge if your old money ) to keep the heat down Where are you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughes.s Posted March 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 In Leicester, me duck. Hughes.s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 Just a thought. Instead of welding You could (and I dont know if this would work), bolt some kind of thick rubber (like conveyer belt material) bettween the plate and hanger. This might affect the sound of impact, but would possibly increase the longevity of the suspended plate to the hanger.... Just an idea anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakotrg Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 Are you sure it's armour plate? Did you drill the holes yourself? if so it may not actually be armour plate as they would have been difficult to drill. As per Tackb try a soft rod such as Monel 67's which are good for dissimilar welding. pm me if you want some Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 What problem were you getting with chain and a frame? I use two steel poles to which I've welded hooks to hang the chain from, and d-shackles to secure the gong to the chain. Easy to transport to location and easy to put up (just need a lump hammer to whack the poles in) Cheers, Jinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughes.s Posted March 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 Thank You Rnonin, Thank you Sakotrg. Ronin I"am going to try what you suggest, and try welding, originally I bolted it to a swinger made from "self healing" material which is ok for fmj"s but tends to "rip" useing expanding, the fifth shot (honestly) hit the bolt head (you can see the splash on the right side of the right hole of thr original photo). the centrefugal force (I think) then sheared the other bolt. But the bolts were only made of monkey metal, I"ll try to source some high tensile bolts and hang it from one hole, Sakotrg, thank you for you"r kind offer, It is armour plate they were plasma cut, the company did an excellent job, they work to + - .001 mm. edit they work to + -.1 mm (their not that good) Hughes.s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughes.s Posted March 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 Jinks, Put my post up saw you"rs. Man you might have solved it for me, this is my original which twisted on itself (the chains to tight) I"ll make two poles like you"rs before you patent them. Thank you. Hughes.s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakotrg Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 It looks like you have solved your problem. If you want to continue down the welding route another option would be to get a positive material identification (PMI) done on the plate and I will be able to get a suitable welding procedure for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldon Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 My 2 cents for what its worth.............Welding this stuff can be awkward and as TackB (got to agree with everything he said) don't crank the amps up as you want minimal heat input in a slow methodical manner not a quick full on zap. Post heat (keep warm after welding and cool slowly i.e. in preheated oven and wrapped in sand) is worthwhile. I used to have some Monel rods that were the bee's knees and would weld differentials if you were prototyping. Far superior to an E6013 for certain circumstances. Another option would be a rod used for brazing unknown cast irons. It looks like a bronze material and would allow some flexing instead of cracking straight off. I have done a bit of welding in the past but personally I would go the bolted route with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilishdave Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 Jinks, Put my post up saw you"rs. Man you might have solved it for me, this is my original which twisted on itself (the chains to tight) I"ll make two poles like you"rs before you patent them. Thank you. Hughes.s Good work around, dont think much of the back stop though!!!!!!!!! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughes.s Posted March 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 oh gosh oh dear, ho ho, he he, splutter, Hu Hu Hu, cough, ha ha ha, snort,(spills tea into lap), oh dear me, I"ve laughed so much at the backstop joke a bit of wee has come out. Dont give up the day job Dave, (smile face) I dont do icons. Thanks to everybody who replied. Went down farm today, slack chain v good (.223 @ 100yds 55g 50g 40g solid and expanding) the plate bolted to the swinger by one bolt also good but 3 shots had it loose in the ground needs a heavier frame, thank you all. Hughes.s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 If you are using hardened steel plate , welding usually will not hold up , well , did a shoot last mth , all hardened steel plates with welded attachment points on the back , some did not last more than 2-3 rds if that , Opps , ( I was shooting a 300WM , 208gr Amax at 2880 fps ) , it seems the welds donot handle the shock effect of the impacts well . I would suggest , like Ronan , did , cut holes into plate and use rubber/conveyor type material to attach to frame , this will absord some of the shock , and you will not have welds to break any more . we talked about this at the shoot while we where having the breakages , and the above advice was given by a shooter who is a Structral Engineer . Later Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 What material is that (guessing it's the lid off something?)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duey Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 What material is that (guessing it's the lid off something?)? BD I think its a target from bushwear thats a self healing rubberised target, supposed to withstand hundreds of FB rounds before it gets destroyed Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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