Discussion about stocks......

[Spuhr]

Just like in the previously started action discussion I feel that on the stockside people often chose a certain model because of tradition or looks more than of needs.

And honestly if we look at the Mauser SP66 of 1966 and a McMillan A5 of today (chose that example as the A5 is the world tactical rifle standard) there is not much differance more than materials.

So as mostly people are using stockdesigns that are around 40 years old, everybody must be convinced that the tactical standard was set in Oberndorf at the 60th.....

 

I don't intend to discuss the make, cause that is not really interesting, as there is a number of really good makes.

I wanna discuss to outline, the ergonomics of the tactical stock.

 

LOP-Length of Pull

In my opinion a very important feature if you wanna shoot really well.

The problem is that the LOP needed varies with the shootingposition and the clothing.

for myself the need is about 1,25" longer LOP in prone than other positions, and of course can one do as people dureing all times have done.

Find a compromiss and get used to it.

The compromiss does mean that the stock is likely to short in prone, and the head has to be drawn back a little bit, and that the stock is to long for other positions so the head either has to be further forward OR just get a half poor sightpicture through the scope.

My own choise of stock is the TRG folder, cause it's one of the few stocks I know of that is quick adjustable for LOP.

Ideally sniper stocks should be fitted with a device for quick adjustibility of the LOP

 

Butt plate height.

Mostly stocks does not come with an adjustable buttplate.

Result of that is that mostly shooters in prone position have the buttplate to low on the shoulder OR the shooting much higher than needed just to get the buttplate high enogh.

I wouldent care on a normal hunting rifle, espesially as mostly of my hunting is on running game and a normal classic stock works pretty well there.

But on the tactical rifle shooting there is in my opinion a hugh differance betwen a shooting position that is maybe ok, and a really good one in prone.

Same here as above, I like the TRG folder of the same reason, quick adjustable butt plate.

So on all tactical rifles should an adjustable butt plate be standard.

 

Folding possibility

It's not neceissarry for mostly users, however it's very convenient for transport.

I love it and the TRG42 or similar rifle with long barrel and dragbag is difficult to transport in many smaller cars, not a problem with folder.

When having folding capacity it's however important that they are stable (TRG could be more stable) AIAW is great.

And also very important is that the stock when folded still goes further back than the ocular of the scope to protect it.

 

There is certainly more that can and should be said about stockdesign, but those features here are something I think mostly seriously have missed.

 

Håkan

[brown dog]

I think the only point I'd disagree with is adjustable LOP; that's a feature for switching between body armour/no body armour; or being able fit a single rifle to short or tall shooters (depending on who it's issued to over its service life).

 

I struggle to see the read across from a M66 thumbhole to an A5 though - I think there's a limit to the number of tunes that can be played connecting a barrel and action to a shooter (once we've got past the jezzail school of design that is!).

 

The big design features for me are ambidextrous vertical pistol grip & thumb shelf, ability to achieve 90degree trigger finger angle and sufficient cheek height to get a cheek weld rather than a chin weld.

 

I think you'll find those features on post-WW2 rimfire target rifles; as i said, there's a limit to the tunes you can play; the human body hasn't changed; nor in general terms have the rifles.

 

Adjustable butt plate? Maybe; the only rifle I've ever had to move the butplate significantly on is a CZ750 I borrowed for a competition; not sure why - but I had to slip it half a stock higher -never had to do that on any other rifle -so it's a 'maybe' for me.

[20series]

Having come from a prone .22 background I'm used to have stocks that adjust in most directions,

 

My new bargain acquisition is and HPS Gemini F-class stock that my new F-Open .284 win is goin to be in now before anyone says about Tactical "I know" just adding my two penneth.

 

 

now before anyone says about Tactical "I know" just adding my two penneth. My Remmy PSS ended up looking like this

 

I fitted a Kartsen cheek piece and played with the palm swell using Miliput, then I decided to do FTR and changed it all again!!

 

 

Alan

[Spuhr]

When shooting the rifle from a low prone position the butt plate is almost always to low, and many people struggle with having it high enough.

However as mostly never have used anything else than fixed to low buttplate they do not know anything else and never thinks about it.

The situation is however a prone position not very good and lots of improvements can be done.

 

Personally I find it interesting that so much effort have been made to get a good pistolgrip, and a good cheekweld, but nothing really made to the fit of the rifle.

So for those of you who have aceess to a gun with adjustability such as TRG, DSR or some of the versions from AI, please do experiment with it a little bit and see if you still will accept to have your buttplate to low.

 

Here is typically how I have my buttplate when shooting prone.

 

Håkan

 

Ps. Alan, why is your geminibuttplate 1,5" higher than the Remmy one?

Do you have the remmy, there you really want it? or are you forced to have your left hand under the stock to prevent it for slipping under the shoulder?

[20series]

Håkan

 

Ps. Alan, why is your geminibuttplate 1,5" higher than the Remmy one?

Do you have the remmy, there you really want it? or are you forced to have your left hand under the stock to prevent it for slipping under the shoulder?

 

Haken

 

I haven't got the Gemini yet, the picture is one I was sent by the seller!! so I don't know where it'll end up until I get the finished rifle in February when my FAC renewal is through.

 

The Remmy fits fairly well I think as it stands but with limited options for moving it about I'm a bit stuck.

 

Alan

[terryh]

Håkan

 

I'm going to sound a right old gramaphone after posting in your action topic.

 

I'm afraid compromise is going to have to be it for me. If you know you would only be shooting prone on one stage of a comp then sitting on the next etc. then the quick adjustable might be useful.

 

Most good comps (read 'exciting' or 'challenging' or 'fun') do not give you that option, a few stages yes, but the majority no, you will have to move, shoot and from different positons under the clock, no time to faff around with your rifle.

 

Keep eveything simple, there is already a pile of stuff to think about/carry/consider.

 

Granted some of the European comps i.e. Czech police, is bacially an F-Class agianst funny targts to mid range and the adjustable butt etc. will work. Go to a more tactical comp and your time would be up and the sticky out rear rest is going to hook in eveything.

 

I started with all and sundry and good intentions (and you know the saying about 'good intentions!) but ended up with a very simple stock designed by someone who wins comps and who's rifles are bought by LEO's / military who have a choice (i.e. not issued weapons).

 

But in saying all that everyones free to develope their own approach and kit, if it works for you in what you do use it.

 

Happy new Year and all that Terry

[brown dog]

Just looked back at these pics - in my memory I had the cz butt plate adjusted way higher - only rifle I've ever had to do it for.

 

http://ukvarminting.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11647&st=0&p=98785&hl=comp&fromsearch=1entry98785