mr moley Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Hi Guys Having a chat with a guy on the range today, he had a moderator fitted by a gunsmith and had 50mm taken of the barrel (.308)to facilitate the screw thread and re crowned the barrel, ever since the rifle is shooting all over the place. don't know the bore twist,the consistency of the shots is terrible, he has checked all the usual things, ammo, cleaning, scope fittings and bases etc. He has used a rest and bipod at different ranges and the grouping is yuk at any range, no consistent groups. Anyone had similar ? Seems the mod fitting has kabooshed the barrel ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Hi Guys Having a chat with a guy on the range today, he had a moderator fitted by a gunsmith and had 50mm taken of the barrel (.308)to facilitate the screw thread and re crowned the barrel, ever since the rifle is shooting all over the place. don't know the bore twist,the consistency of the shots is terrible, he has checked all the usual things, ammo, cleaning, scope fittings and bases etc. He has used a rest and bipod at different ranges and the grouping is yuk at any range, no consistent groups. Anyone had similar ? Seems the mod fitting has kabooshed the barrel ? Fitting a Mod WILL change the point of impact in many cases and you will have to adjust for it BUT it should be consistent after that. This sounds like one for the gunsmiths... recrowning not done properly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxshooter Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Has he tried shooting it without the mod fitted to see if it is the mod that has been poorley fitted and the cause? Visually check the mod for strike markings Visually inspect the crown for imperfections MArk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr moley Posted November 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Hi Guys I believe the guy is going to take the rifle to another gunsmith recommended to him, for inspection and testing, he has checked all areas and is exasperated on the performance of grouping, will keep any results posted if available, bit of a funny one though, says a plus plus plus for factory fitted screw threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamfarmer Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 hi guys , normally fitting of a moderator improves grouping so unless an absolute hash has been made of the fitting cant see why the moderator should be to blame if it is that bad the baffles would be down the range any how.also the exit hole on the mod would be nice and new so again would act a little like a second crown for the bullet to exit through . it could be that the action is not torqued down into the stock correctly some makes have set torques for front middle and rear action bolts and set orders in which to tighten or the weight of the mod is now causing a previously free floating barrel to touch the stock and so not be free floated again this could be caused by incorrect refitting of action to stock. you dont say weather he is using home loads or factory ammo but lopping 50mm off the barrel could well of screwed up the barrel harmonics for the load that he was using . so if every thing is nice and snug fitting and previous replies dont reveal any horrors then it either redevelop the load or try some other factory fodder to find something that might shoot ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr moley Posted November 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 hi guys , normally fitting of a moderator improves grouping so unless an absolute hash has been made of the fitting cant see why the moderator should be to blame if it is that bad the baffles would be down the range any how.also the exit hole on the mod would be nice and new so again would act a little like a second crown for the bullet to exit through . it could be that the action is not torqued down into the stock correctly some makes have set torques for front middle and rear action bolts and set orders in which to tighten or the weight of the mod is now causing a previously free floating barrel to touch the stock and so not be free floated again this could be caused by incorrect refitting of action to stock. you dont say weather he is using home loads or factory ammo but lopping 50mm off the barrel could well of screwed up the barrel harmonics for the load that he was using . so if every thing is nice and snug fitting and previous replies dont reveal any horrors then it either redevelop the load or try some other factory fodder to find something that might shoot ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr moley Posted November 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Hi The chap has used shop ammo throughout apparently to get the right ammo, the gun is brand new and until the mod was fitted everything was tickety boo the rifle was ok and shot good groups will keep you updated on events Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Hi Guys I believe the guy is going to take the rifle to another gunsmith recommended to him, for inspection and testing, he has checked all areas and is exasperated on the performance of grouping, will keep any results posted if available, bit of a funny one though, says a plus plus plus for factory fitted screw threads. Why take it to someone else? Give the first chap the opportunity to put right or investigate. Losing 50mm from length is unlikely to affect barrel harmonics. Possible issues: Thread may not be true to bore,, Which makes the mod bore off centre and may lead to clipping of bullets in extreme cases. Crown may not be perfect All these things should be 100% before the rifle leaves the gunsmith. As far as factory screwcuts - ive seen some truly horrendous jobs from the manufacturers..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 I,m with Ronin on this one. Is there something wrong with the original gunsmith ? Or is he one of the bottom of the garden, shed....for £20 type of Gunsmiths ? Maybe thats why your mate doesn,t want to go back ? If not, then let the chap who did it have a look at it, it could be quite simple. Too many people automatically blame the gunsmith. Stopped to think it may be a bad moderator ? I,ve had several over the years that simply were not concentric, and had to go back. Could be anyone of half a dozen things. 1. Shoulder not cut square to bore. 2. Thread not cut square, oversize/undersize. 3. Rear bush too tight, or just touching barrel [if applicable ] 4. Moderator internal thread not square. 5. A baffle out of alignement. 6. Crown not recut square, or damaged. As Ronin says, some factory threads are awful. There was a run of remingtons so bad, that had been done on import here, i would not fit a mod to one without cutting the thread off and redoing it. They are now done at the factory and aren't too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergal Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Oh absolutely give the man a chance to rectify it, dont just run off to someone else unless of course as Dave Wylde said he's someone that shouldnt have ever touched it in the first place. Little issues can sometimes happen in this game and its usually something very small like Dave has quite rightly pointed out. Id give the Smith a decent chance to rectify it. If he cant do that well then you've done your bit and I couldnt blame you for going elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamfarmer Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 hi guys , this sounds like one of those situations that are hard to advise on unless we have all the facts as ronin and baldie point out there could be any thing causing it. as i have found out my self just taking some thing apart and reassembling can sort a problem and you dont know why the hell its cured . also the skill of the "gunsmith" concerned may have a huge bearing on the outcome but may be baldie can tell us but 50mm off a barrel to recrown and tread sounds excessive unless some length was asked to be removed for handling issues . graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr moley Posted November 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 hi guys , this sounds like one of those situations that are hard to advise on unless we have all the facts as ronin and baldie point out there could be any thing causing it. as i have found out my self just taking some thing apart and reassembling can sort a problem and you dont know why the hell its cured . also the skill of the "gunsmith" concerned may have a huge bearing on the outcome but may be baldie can tell us but 50mm off a barrel to recrown and tread sounds excessive unless some length was asked to be removed for handling issues . graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr moley Posted November 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Guys The crown had been misaligned on the shortened barrel work, the new gunsmith can undertake the work - with a guarantee on the accuracy apparently - the rifle owner actually managed to crack half a smile this morning. I reckon he should do the lottery with luck like that he's sure to win a packet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Misaligned crown ? Threaded in a 3 jaw chuck ? Or clocked off the outside of the barrel in a 4 jaw. Graham.....you would be surprised what people ask for chopping off their guns....makes me cringe sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr moley Posted November 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Misaligned crown ? Threaded in a 3 jaw chuck ? Or clocked off the outside of the barrel in a 4 jaw. Graham.....you would be surprised what people ask for chopping off their guns....makes me cringe sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr moley Posted November 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 I really don;t know why the guy had the mod put on in the first place, he had just purchased the rifle brand new then had it worked on. ??? don't make sense, I have just ordered a new rifle and all the bits I want on it will be done at the factory. I just hope it all comes out sweet and he enjoys the rifle after all this. Heh - Looking on the positive side, (prior to the rifle being fixed )he would be the guy you want down the range in a accuracy shoot off in the same gallery as yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergal Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Id say if the guy that shortened and crowned the barrel knew anything about what he was at he couldnt possibly have done it in a 3 jaw or dialed from the outside. My guess is he actually did dial from the bore and most likely got it bang on before he went to work on it, then after cutting the 11 degree or step crown whichever he did something moved so when he went to the critical part on the bore he screwed up. We always take extreme care with this and after cutting the 11 degree front face its important to then recheck the bore to see has anything moved. Thats why I suggested you give him a second shot at it, if he knew anything about it and Id say he did then he would have had no problem kopping his mistake and correcting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr moley Posted November 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Id say if the guy that shortened and crowned the barrel knew anything about what he was at he couldnt possibly have done it in a 3 jaw or dialed from the outside. My guess is he actually did dial from the bore and most likely got it bang on before he went to work on it, then after cutting the 11 degree or step crown whichever he did something moved so when he went to the critical part on the bore he screwed up. We always take extreme care with this and after cutting the 11 degree front face its important to then recheck the bore to see has anything moved. Thats why I suggested you give him a second shot at it, if he knew anything about it and Id say he did then he would have had no problem kopping his mistake and correcting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr moley Posted November 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Horses for courses Always pays to have the right person for the right job. I hope when I see the guy again on the range all is good. will keep you informed guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.jpg.0972b4e2bdf0b5a4109eb96f2b1b62ad.jpg)
(200x135).jpg.0fd0a94f065c6cb243fdff1b40e0819a.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.