varmint rifle

[legion]

i am looking at a HS varminter on guntrader, left hand .223 with bases and rings. Spoke to the guy, the rifle has had 500 rounds through it, 2 year old and looks in good nick. Would you say this is a good first rifle for long range work crows foxes and the odd roe deer, bearing in mind its 1/14 twist rifling.

I choose .223 for the ease of getting factory ammo, great feed back and can be moderated well. comments please.

[Alycidon]

It should be perfectly good for foxes etc and below. The 1 in 14 is the normal twist rate for the caliber and is best suited to bullets around 50 grains and below. If you want to shoot heavier bullets you would need a faster twist to stabalise them. A 69 grainer seems to want about 1 in 8.

 

http://www.accuratereloading.com/twist.html

 

I assume you are talking about roe in Scotland, as I understand it only the 22.250 and maybe the .220 Swift are going to be allowed in England when they finally get around to it. A .223 is perfectly legal in Scotland though.

 

My own thoughts are that suitably constructed bullets in the caliber and weight you need may he hard to come accross. I am aware of one stalker using 55gr NBT's who necks everything with a 22.250 but I think the Sierra Gameking soft point is the more normal bullet of choice for deer in .22 but there are no 50 grainers.

 

http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?sec...mp;displayAll=1

 

Accurate shot placement is essential as you have no margin at all for error. I am aware of one stalker who will sometimes take his .223 out in preference to his .270 to give his dog some tracking work.

 

If I were you I would look for a faster twist in a 22.250 for Roe or even better a 6mm(.243 etc) of some sort. Both can forfill your requirements OK.

 

A

 

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[legion]

It should be perfectly good for foxes etc and below. The 1 in 14 is the normal twist rate for the caliber and is best suited to bullets around 50 grains and below. If you want to shoot heavier bullets you would need a faster twist to stabalise them. A 69 grainer seems to want about 1 in 8.

 

http://www.accuratereloading.com/twist.html

 

I assume you are talking about roe in Scotland, as I understand it only the 22.250 and maybe the .220 Swift are going to be allowed in England when they finally get around to it. A .223 is perfectly legal in Scotland though.

 

My own thoughts are that suitably constructed bullets in the caliber and weight you need may he hard to come accross. I am aware of one stalker using 55gr NBT's who necks everything with a 22.250 but I think the Sierra Gameking soft point is the more normal bullet of choice for deer in .22 but there are no 50 grainers.

 

http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?sec...mp;displayAll=1

 

Accurate shot placement is essential as you have no margin at all for error. I am aware of one stalker who will sometimes take his .223 out in preference to his .270 to give his dog some tracking work.

 

If I were you I would look for a faster twist in a 22.250 for Roe or even better a 6mm(.243 etc) of some sort. Both can forfill your requirements OK.

 

A

 

a

[Jager SA]

i am looking at a HS varminter on guntrader, left hand .223 with bases and rings. Spoke to the guy, the rifle has had 500 rounds through it, 2 year old and looks in good nick. Would you say this is a good first rifle for long range work crows foxes and the odd roe deer, bearing in mind its 1/14 twist rifling.

I choose .223 for the ease of getting factory ammo, great feed back and can be moderated well. comments please.

 

 

If its an all-rounder you want id opt for a 6mm over the 223, simply because it packs more punch on Roe and is much better suited to the loooooong range varminting. Dont get me wrong the 223 is just the dogs (Ive had one years) as a varminting rifle but not for Deer IMO (And ive shot a few beasties in my time )

 

The 6mm will be just the tool for the heavier bullets on crows and bunnies.

[Vermincinerator]

Legion,

Which is uppermost in your choice, the rifle or the calibre? i have seen the advert for the rifle in question as i had a look at it on behalf of a lefty friend of mine, it seems a like fine piece of equipment.

In other words are you interested in the HS regardless of the calibre?

If you want a 223 then you wont go wrong with this fine rifle but like the other guys say there better suited cartridges for the multiple uses you have envisaged for your rifle.

For an all-rounder (not including large deer species) you will find it hard to beat the 243 (Ackley excepted) or the 6mm Rem (even better Improved).

For the same kind of money you could have a Cooper in any of the above mentioned calibres and many others including .223 and .22-250, improved versions aswell

 

Ian.

[legion]

thinking about it, you may be right- the hs is tempting but as you have said a cooper new for similar money seems a good deal. What would the waiting time be on a cooper in left hand. I have 243 on my cert at the moment but my firearms officer is not keen to allow vermin ie crows as a suitable use. Many thanks for the sound advice.

[Vermincinerator]

I do believe the wait for a Cooper is the same be it L/H or R/H, about 6months unless there is one on the shelf, it is always worth a phone call.

 

Ian.

[Jager SA]

I have 243 on my cert at the moment but my firearms officer is not keen to allow vermin ie crows as a suitable use. Many thanks for the sound advice.

 

 

Ah, of course the 223 is less dangerous than the 6mm, silly me theres me thinking I new a bit about it. Of course the FEO's all know best!

[legion]

because .223 is legal for roe up here, the feo believes that it will therefore be suitable- so why should i need a .243 when a .223 will do the job, plus be suitable for fox and crow. Her logic is that i only need one rifle instead of two. The wait for a cooper is an issue, any other rifles that have proved their worth, sako 75, remington 700, titan. tikka t3?.

[Guest 308Panther]

Ah, of course the 223 is less dangerous than the 6mm, silly me theres me thinking I new a bit about it. Of course the FEO's all know best!

 

Now that is really intelligent....one caliber is less dangerous than another?

Since their heads are so far up their own as+es...is there room enough to add my foot?

 

308Panther

[Jager SA]

Now that is really intelligent....one caliber is less dangerous than another?

Since their heads are so far up their own as+es...is there room enough to add my foot?

 

308Panther

 

 

 

You got to love these guys, mind you not all are bad, some do have some savvy.

[Jager SA]

because .223 is legal for roe up here, the feo believes that it will therefore be suitable- so why should i need a .243 when a .223 will do the job, plus be suitable for fox and crow. Her logic is that i only need one rifle instead of two. The wait for a cooper is an issue, any other rifles that have proved their worth, sako 75, remington 700, titan. tikka t3?.

 

"The feo BELIEVES that it will therefore be suitable" Well I feel safer in the knowledge that she believes its safe, er suitable.

 

Whilst it is perfectly legal for the use of the 224 cal on Roe, why dont you say to her you feel strongly from a humane point of view and feel the 6mm is what you want? Sorry but I dont see how she can say no.

 

She needs some education! JMO

 

How much do you want to spend is the question? Why not go with a semi custom rig, this will outshoot any off the shelf rifle?

[legion]

I have spoke to Colin in the past about his semi custom rifles but cannot really justify that sort of money on my first varminting set up. The other way is a factory rifle that i can send to Baldie in the future for some improvement work- the big question is which rifle?

[Jager SA]

I have spoke to Colin in the past about his semi custom rifles but cannot really justify that sort of money on my first varminting set up. The other way is a factory rifle that i can send to Baldie in the future for some improvement work- the big question is which rifle?

 

Doner action, Rem 700, Howa cant go wrong with either, Wild Dog Stock, Border Archer Barrel, what a set up, cant go wrong mate. The lot would probably be about £1200ish, not far off the HS, Sako etc off the shelf and will shoot better than all of them.

[Guest vim]

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[Jager SA]

Im suprised that you did`nt recomend a Dura Coated off the shelf Sako

Sako off the shelf every time over a semi custon Rem or Howa.

 

 

Oh I forgot, Duracoat included!

 

Semi job over a Sako anyday matey.

[Guest vim]

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[Redfox]

Sako and duracoat there are plenty of s/h ones around in 243 or 6mm good to go and good basis for upgrading when money allows. Just point out to the FEO? that using lighter varmint bullets allows safe varminting and the heavier hunting bullets give safe humane deer kills.

Either that or say you will have to ask for two rifles in appropriate calibers.

They obviously just work off the BASC bullshit sheet and a determination to reduce the number of rifles in your area!

Heaven help us.

Redfox

[Jager SA]

I think there`s been a miss understanding of reading the last couple of post`s Now this from a a rifle smith and i quote, Sako actions out of the box are as straight as anything out there and a good base for a potential custom job later if required..

That why i purchased a Sako Jame`s and not a wanky Howa or a poxy Remmy The sako still has a standard stock which will be replaced when finance`s are better

One custom jobby

 

Ah, you cheeky git, you didnt say nowt about the Sako being for a custom job thats a different story. However, the Howas are so good I would say they could be put up against a Sako. Dont forget the Howa is a Sako/Rem clone and they dont need much if at all doing to them.

 

Thing is youre not going to get a Sako action for £450-£500 to base a semi on, you will however get a Rem or Howa for littel spondoolies that will perform as well.

[Jager SA]

Sako and duracoat there are plenty of s/h ones around in 243 or 6mm good to go and good basis for upgrading when money allows. Just point out to the FEO? that using lighter varmint bullets allows safe varminting and the heavier hunting bullets give safe humane deer kills.

Either that or say you will have to ask for two rifles in appropriate calibers.

They obviously just work off the BASC bullshit sheet and a determination to reduce the number of rifles in your area!

Heaven help us.

Redfox

 

 

BASC Bullshit sheet now we are talking. Is that the same as the HO GUIDANCE... lets enforce this as law... sheet.

 

Yep lets hit the law abiding peeps and let the crims play until their hearts content.

[Guest vim]

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[Wsm]

Legion

 

My advise would be go for a factory stainless Sako.I could count on one hand the ones that wouldn`t shoot and half inch/100 yds is more often than not the norm.

Then when you`ve got bored with it you`ve got a quality action so its just the case of rebarrelling with something like a Walther or border for about £500

[Jager SA]

I was kind of hoping that you`d say that Jame`s I tell thee what i`ll shoot my Sako against one of your Howa`s then and i`ll put £200 on that it performs better. You shoot the Howa (any calibre) and me my Sako at a 200 yard target and we`ll post the results eh

Your partner tried to do Baldie out of a custom job for me he was offering a Howa/Wilddog out fit £100 cheaper than what Baldie was offering a Rem/Wilddog. They must have a good profit margin eh

Its all about keeping it real and my recomendation would be either a New Sako for Legion or a second hand one and in both cases planning for future Custom work.

I parted with a new Sauer to get a potential custom project under way and the best way was to obtain a Sako action

 

 

Heh, heh I does like a challenge, I tell thee what lets make it 300 yards and you got a deal. I just got the 300wsm sorted for my NZ trip and need to blow the cobwebs out.

 

My partner in crime is what you meant, go on you know you want too. Didnt know he was offering that one to you, of course you snapped his hand off didnt you.

 

I agree with what you say about the Sako, nothing wrong with planning ahead but honestly dont discount the Howas or the Remmy for a project. I was never a fan of Remmys until I saw a few semi jobs performing on the range.... sub 1/4 MOA, now that is that which promotes growth and vigour hot.

[legion]

Guys, we are talking left hand action, limits whats available,remi and sako in blue only as far as i am aware. What about the titan action for semi custom work os savage?

[Jager SA]

Guys, we are talking left hand action, limits whats available,remi and sako in blue only as far as i am aware. What about the titan action for semi custom work os savage?

 

Savage are not bad at all, seem well represented in the US. Ive seen a few semi rigs on Savage actions, perhaps ask Baldie, he sees a bit more att he ranges.