Miseryguts

240gr bullet from H&N or LOS ( these are electroplated copper on lead)

H&N also have a nice plastic coating as well

6.3 or 6.5gr Unique with H&N TC gives 950 to 980fps

6.8gr Unique with LOS RNFP gives 960 to to 1000fps

Both loads are better than 1.5moa ES at 50 to 60yards through a Henry Big Boy, and I am certain that the gun will shoot better than that - me and peep sights are not really compatible!

Only problem is that as with all lever rifles with barrel clamps, POI changes as the barrel warms up, which is a shame on a lever action rifle with a fast cycling action

M

I use a labradar unit, it is not cheap, but I can set it up in seconds, and have complete flexibility for programming via the smart phone app. This means I use it every time I shoot - apart from live quarry shooting obviously. Suppressed loads are not a problem, just switch to doppler mode. A sighting add on from 1066 is a game changer for small calibres. I do not know how many you can create without deleting, but I am up to 100+ series now. Down side seems to be that you cannot go back to an old series and add some shots, you have to create a new series. But you can always put the two series onto a spread sheet to get the average of the higher number of shots.

M sweating in sunny monmouthshire

With my dies (cheapo Lee) and shellholder(Also) Lee and the redding shellholder set, on my 223 the lee die and shellholder set the shoulder back to 1.455. The chamber is 1.461 and using the redding 0.004 shellholder I reset the shoulder to 1.458 - all measurements using MY comparator

M

Hi, I may be completely wrong, but surely if the die is adjusted to touch the shell holder at the top of the stroke, screwing the die further in only adjust the point in the stroke that the die contacts the shell holder. The shoulder set back is governed by the die. The only way to change the shoulder set back is to use a set of the redding competition shellholders? or shims on the standard shell holder? Either work with my set up, but the (expensive) shellholders are the easiest on my 223 and 308

M ducking back behind the parapet in sunny monmouthshire

Hi, all the small print seems very open to individual interpretation of nuanced aspects of the various terms used in these transactions. A field day for the legals! I can only speak of my own experiences.

I have a very good relationship with my RFD as I have dealt with him for a good many years. I fancied a specific rifle that was not readily available in this country - I locate one and asked him to get it whilst I got a variation. The deal was that I would recompense any loss incurred should the variation fall through or I changed my mind. Nothing in writing, but we are both gentlemen(I think/hope).

I suppose a difference is that no money changed hands until I collected said rifle.

M in dampish monmouthshire

Ultrasonic cleaner does inside of case and primer pocket - low power jewellery type are useless, so get decent power. I still tumble for a short time in fine media to get a nice bright shine - I know it is just cosmetic, but that is the way I am

M in sunny sunny monmouthshire

Full Length size and Bullet instal/crimp

scale not  yet sold

PM sent

Second picture of Lyman Dies

 As tile

30-06 dies are as new. 2 die set by Pacific Durachrome(Hornady), with original instructions £35 posted

SOLD

270 Win  2 die set by Lyman, not sure of age, but in very good condition - no instructions, original box £35 posted

Rest of pics

Lyman  500 Scale £30 posted  SOLD

Sinclair Hex Bullet comparator £12 posted    SOLD

T3X mag for 223 rem £30 posted

Reduced power spring for Henry H015 single shot rifle in 45-70 These reduce the trigger pull from 6-8lb to 3lb

Min buy in states is 10, these are a British equivalent, and I had to buy 5, so I have 4 spare.   £6 posted each

Shiny one on left is the original(not for sale)

2 minutes ago, BlueBoy69 said:

It's unlikely to be a detonation, this is one of those folkloric myths bandied around the internet. It's to do with pressure wave oscillations. A large empty case (or chamber) and a small charge of propellant can result in a destructive pressure wave forming.

Essentially the propellant starts to burn and a pressure wave travels from the burning propellant charge, say at the back of the case, to the front of the case or chamber. The wave strikes the front of the case/chamber/base of the projectile and reflects back towards the burning charge. If the reflection coincides with the peak of another pressure wave, the pressure is increased. This reflection/reinforcement can oscillation backwards and forwards until the pressure exceeds the strength of the gun, blowing it up.

The wave can, of course, oscillate up and down too, like in a small arms cartridge case with a small amount of powder running along the bottom of the case. In small arms cases, both the up and down, and the forwards and backwards likely occur.

Anyway, it's not detonation of the charge, the failure of the gun is due to excessive pressure caused by pressure oscillations. Pressure oscillations and differentials are the bane of big gun designers.

Look up the US Army Ballistics Laboratory paper (ARBRL-TR-02277) from 1990 titled 'Charge Design Considerations and Their Effect On Pressure Waves In Guns'. This is also in the AIAA book I have titled 'The Interior Ballistics of Guns' with the same paper in. That book's rather expensive now (link), so just go for the paper.

Neil

I stand corrected! My apologies for my loose tongue

M going back to sleep in Monmouthshire

Hi, Slightly off topic, but as Blueboy said sometime ago, these fast pistol powders do not suffer from the detonation effect. As I cannot travel to shoot, I have been using subsonic loads with a moderator on 22, 223, and 308 to shoot at home without drawing attention. Obviously the 22 is bought, but the 223 and 308 both use Green Dot (which is the same speed as N32C).  2.8gn with 55gn bullet gives 1090fps average in 223 with ES 31fps and Sd  11.3

6.8gn with 165gn bullet gives 1058 fps average in 308 with Sd 8

As an aside, I have developed a little Excel file which calculates the change in elevation required from your normal 100yd zero for a subsonic load at various ranges. You input the velocity of your normal 100yd zero load, the velocity of your subsonic load, and the range you are shooting at (in feet), and the file then returns the change in elevation in inches, mr, and moa. It is not exact, but with my rifles and loads it gets you on paper within 1/2 inch.

If anyone is interested, PM me and I can e mail the file to you.

M with too much time on his hands in Monmouthshire

13 hours ago, Woodlander said:

I use 55gr in a .223, very good value and every bit as good as Vmax.  I can only assume this is the same for the .17 version.  

+1 onn that, 55gn Varmageddon with 25gn H335, same POI as 53gn Vmax with 25.3gn H335, and exactly same result😉

M

14 hours ago, KABOOM said:

Your right on track! My only added thought is maybe make sure you tip the round skyward to flow powder to the primer and maybe have better ignition, perhaps the word should be consistent?

 

Hi K, I do that as a matter of course in the case of the 45-70, the rifle is a Henry Single shot model H015 and as such as one loads this happens almost automatically. I do run a 308 BA with a subsonic load of the same powder, and get no effects there loading from the magazine.

2 hours ago, VarmLR said:

Could it simply be a warming barrel?  I've seen this many times with lighter sporting barrels where shot one, and sometimes shot 2 are off, with the rest forming a relatively consistent group as the barrel warms on the string, only for the groups to go "off" again after 5 or 6 shots.  As Terry says, it may just be one of those things to note with that particular load with that particular rifle.

 

Varm, that does sound like a reasonable answer. The rifle is a Henry single shot and quite light weight ( hence the reduced subsonic loads - the full pace loads are too much for my arthritic shoulder)

Thanks to all who have replied, unfortunately I cannot do any further testing on this as I think that using the  un-moderated 45-70 on my house range might be a step too far! The 22 and subsonic 308 are whisper quiet (no ear  protection needed) but none of my other rifles are moderated or using subsonic ammo, so gathering dust in the cupboard!

M ( looking at subsonic loads for his 223 in chilly Monmouthshire)

Hi, glad to see this thread resurrected, I have developed a subsonic load using Green  Dot, but would like to try the N32C as a pal of mine has a tub of it that he wants to split. So, if anyone has successful loads to share, I am interested.

My present load is:

1:11 twist, 24 in barrel

165gr H&N plated RN bullet, 6.8gn Green Dot COAL 2.645 PPU brass CCI 200 primer

Av MV 1058fps Sd 8fps

1.5 moa ES at 200 yd,  1 moa ES at 60 yd

Ear muffs not required

Miseryguts, slightly stir crazy in Monmouthshire

P.S. Green Dot is great in my 45-70 too, but always open to new ideas.

its the ammo. CCI or RWS work, many others do not

M

11 hours ago, Ronin said:

Suggest you all need to look at the long haul with this situation

We are by no means beyond a third of the way with regards infection, deaths and the loss of infrastructure. I’m sure the authorities will act as advised, it’s just a shame we appear to be three weeks behind everyone else 

 

If you look at how the infection has spread in other countries (Italy for example) we are matching their model of infection very very closely on similar timescale 

The virus will affect everyone and life as we know it for several months at least will change 

I think you need to look to autumn before things get better and in the meantime things will get much worse 

The government is relaxing drivers hours and several suppliers (supermarkets) are recruiting heavily for staff to provide support and the transport infrastructure to support increased demand and enable provisions to be on the shelves or delivered to the most needy 

The last thing people need to do is panic buy - the last few weeks has shown human behaviour at its worst as far as I’m concerned 

Most gatherings / competitions etc are going to be cancelled 

Just deal with it, next year may be better 😃

+ 1 on the human behavior  - we live in a rural farming community and both of us are in a high risk group. Yesterday the locusts landed on our little village shop and stripped it. For one, I cannot understand the pre-occupation with toilet rolls, and I don't like pasta anyway.

Miseryguts (off to shoot some gongs in my neighbours field)

Hi Oly I have an Evo on my 308, and I have no problem using for range use. You do need the neoprene cover otherwise the heat haze is bad as it does get pretty warm on a 10 shot String. I do take advantage of the strippability of the unit and clean it regularly using an ultrasound unit. I use O ring grease on the O rings, and Copaslip on all the threads. The modularity of the unit is great, I have a spare baffle unit to use it on my 223 - two moderators for 1.3 x the price of one! ( both rifles have the same barrel thread 18x1)

Miseryguts (Stir crazy in wet Monmouthshire)

Hi Bob, I have a Saur Fieldshoot in 308, and had a similar problem. With mine, the problem was two fold. First the extraction springs behind the two plungers in the bolt face are very strong. These plungers must be lubricated with a hi tensile grease otherwise you will scratch the brass of the cartridge case. As has already mentioned, the same hi tensile grease is required on the lugs and the extractor claw.

Secondly it is necessary to apply the force closing the bolt in line with the bolt, and to ensure the bolt is fully home and said spring studs are fully compressed before putting rotational force on the bolt to close it. The bolt will then close easily.

I know the above sounds complicated, but it is just a bit of grease and the correct technique. 

My Gunsmith hs said he will ease the springs if I want, but I  have not found it necessary once I twigged the technique. I still like the rifle, but if you want a one finger bolt closure get a Tikka T3X! ( I have one of those too!)

Miseryguts (stir crazy in wet Monmouthshire)

4 hours ago, Triffid said:

I did a bit of looking on some US forums. There is some talk of discrepancies when the battery is running low, with suggestions that using an external battery.

I have no experience with the Labradar, but those first shot on each string being consistently 50-60fps lower than the next nine makes me think that it's the instrument.

Triffid 

Hi T I run this unit with an external source, so it is not a run down battery. I take your point on the likelihood of equipment malfunction, so I will be running some tests next time out.

Having said that, I have checked back on the last 40 or so strings of shots on various calibres, and in the past it has always been the first shot of the day that was wayward, and subsequent strings have been as expected. Ho Hum

M twiddling his thumbs in wet Monmouthshire

I have been using the Labradar on lots of different calibres (I have rifles with 7 different calibres) and I have not seen this effect on any other strings. Even if I am shooting a long string of a particular calibre, it is always in batches of 5 or 10(5 or 10 shot groups), and never seen this effect before. I will check back as I have not deleted any strings yet, so they are all still on the memory card for the last 4 months.

I suppose it may be down to the delay in between strings in the case of the 45-70, so I will try and test that out on a specific load  next time I take it out. So far I have only been trying small batches of different loads.

M (still puzzled and blue in now wet Monmouthshire)

2 hours ago, Popsbengo said:

There's a lot of volume in a 45/70 case and your light load of powder is 'sloshing' about in there.  Combustion is likely to be variable.  Why only the first round?? I can't explain.

I load full power 405gn and never experienced any first shot issued.  Some mates use Unique (a touch slower than Green Dot) and they've not experienced your issue, or at least, they've never noticed 😀

You could try an inert filler (there's plenty of stuff about techniques etc on t'internet)

 

That's what gets me - the rest of the shots in the string have low ES and single figure Sd. I use the Green Dot on subsonic 308 loads, and have no problems in that case. I have some Unique, so I can try some of that. Thanks for your thoughts

M