Elevation adjustment running out

[Woodlander]

Having recently bought my first dial able scope(V8),once fitted and zeroed(Tier One rings and rail),it ran out of clicks at 57 out of a possible 100,more,apparently if the zero stop is removed. This model is known for its lack of range and on the flat shooting.204,57 clicks will only get me out to 450,a lot less with larger calibres,I suspect.

 

Is this normal that all that adjustment is taken up just zeroing? If so,manufacturers really ought to get their act together. The rifle is a Sako 85. Thanks.

[tikkat3rob]

sounds like you need a 20 moa rail

Scopes are normally shipped set in the middle of their adjustment range

[gbal]

Woodlander,yes- scope zeroing can take up quite a bit of total scope adjusment range-barrels vary in taper etc,one size don't fit all....good news is a fix is tikkat3rob's -fit a tapered rail (low end to muzzle) 20 moa will give all you need for the 204's effective range (see below)...less good news is that the choice for a Sako is limited-plenty posts on this issue onhere,some in January....

 

204 is indeed a fine varmint round-near enough the older 22/250 perhaps,but consider drop/drift ";10 mphwind,200y zero:

 

Hornady 40g Vmax BC .275 @ 3900fps 200y .7/.8; 300y 5/8; 400y 14/15; 500y 30/25 ; 600y 54/37

 

Shetland is lovely,but on the breezy side,perhaps?

At 400y, a wind read error of 2mph-remember,over 400y of terrain,not at muzzle-would be quite good-but that alone means a +/- 3" miss factor-ie a miss on a crow-let alone bullet grouping dispersion -at least another inch and a half etc etc...

Check out the rail options-Recknagel,Tier One,etc maybe-but check fitting to Sako-fine rifles,but need a little care on this issue.

Good shooting.

 

gbal

[rhhudson]

I've got a v8 and i have got full 100 clicks. Mines on a tikka 243. I guess your gun must shoot low from the off.

 

I would suggest a 10/ 20 moa rail, you will still get your 100 yrd zero if your that far up already.

 

Great scope, you wont regret spending the money.

[terryh]

Woodland,

 

With the scope set at your 'zero' distance (100 yards) count how many 'clicks' down you have until you run out of adjustment, then turn that value into a mount system with some built in 'elevation' as suggested -

 

But not to the extreme i.e. If you've 46moa from your 100 yard till your scope bottoms out go for a 20 or 30 MOA rail. You have a quality scope so using thre extremes of its available adjustment should not be a problem.

 

Makes sense?

 

Brgds Terry

[Woodlander]

Thanks for the feedback,guys. Thanks Terry,makes perfect sense,20 moa rail would hopefully get me out to the limits of the .204,but still allowing a 100yd zero. I'm surprised that on modern rifles that this should be needed,though.

 

rhhudson,it is indeed a great scope,it's away at Zeiss getting a windage turret retrofitted,then it will be superb.

 

Gbal,with the windy conditions I'm hoping to get a .223 to shoot the heavier bullets,especially as at the moment I'm shooting 32gr BK

Which will be blown around even more than the 39/40s. Will pm you about drop/drift comparison between them.

 

Thanks again for your help. W

[jcampbellsmith]

You could try a set of these rings and use the various offset insert to align the scope as you desire?

 

http://opticswarehouse.co.uk/product/burris-xtr-signature-rings-1-inch-30mm-34mm/

 

Regards

 

JCS

[gbal]

Woodlanderder,yes-here are some 204 32 g data for comparison

 

Hornady 32g Vmax BC.21@ 4225 200y 0/4; 300y 4/10; 400y 13/19; 500y 29/32

 

Rem/Win/Fed32g are all pretty much as above.The Fed load,despite 200fps less and v close BC .207 is :

 

Fed 32g Nos BT BC.207 @4030 2000/4.4; 300 4.7/11; 400 15/20; 500 33/34

 

Despite what enthusiasts aim for,you don't actually get much improvement with even 200more fps MV.

 

For 223,"heavy bullets" data include :

 

Nosler Cust Comp 69g BC.305 @2900 200 0/4.4 ; 300 8.4/10.4; 400 25/20; 500 53/33

Fed 77g Match BC .372 @ 2720 200 0/3.8 ; 300 9/9 ; 400 26/17 ; 500 54/28

Nos 77Cus Comp BC .34 @ 2600 200 0/4.5; 300 10.3/10.7; 400 30.4/20 ; 500 63/33

 

Hard to make a case for these 223s superiority in wind (and they drop considerably more....)

 

Hence the 6mms eg 243 85 SGK .315@3300 200 0/3.5; 300 6/8.3; 400 18/15.6 ;500 38/26

 

(one issue becomes the relative dearth of heavier,small varmint design bullets for the 6mms)

 

The 22/250 can use the 224 designs (and the heavier Amax quite well -home loaded) ...eg

 

Fed 55 g Nos BT BC .268 @3670 200 0/3.7; 300 5/8.7; 400 15.5/16.4; 500 33/27

 

Then of course the 6BR -a fine cartridge- etc,not generally available in mid range factory rifles,or the 6.5s-but they all hit the same wall-wind drift will exceed the shooters ability to compensate accurately enough for confident first shot hits at the longer varmint ranges,and small targets (450y crow is only 3" wide,eg!)

 

(Compare good 6.5 120g NosBT BC .418@2950 200 0/3 ; 300 7/7 ; 400 21/13 ; 500 42/21

 

All worth some pondering....good luck meanwhile...

 

g

[Woodlander]

g,very interesting. I had thought the .223 with the heavier bullets would vastly outperform the little .204 in the wind

. For me,anything larger than a .22 CF would be difficult to justify,so finding the chambering/bullet/rifle combination is not so simple.

Had thought the .204 would be great for 100-400 and a .223 from 300-600+.

g, would the 69gr lose out a lot in range and drift to the 75/77s? Choosing a bullet would be a good starting point and rule out a couple of options. Thanks g.

[simonl]

If you're up against it in terms of justifying calibres then I think possibly tricky to justify 223 plus 204. They are pretty similar, and neither is great at extended ranges. Not seeing a splash can get frustrating.

[gbal]

Simoni makes a good point-204 and 223 are quite similar(see data in post 8,and neither are aa top 224 calibre choice for 400+ yards.

The basic case capacity etc is very cimilar. 22/250 has more potential (see below)

 

AS post 10,the heavier 224 bullets have similar drift,but drop more,that 204 bullets. Thee Nos69,Fed77 and Nos Cust loads were given to show how BC and MV have effects...and can more or les compensate each other-within narrow limits.

 

Here is some more data on the 69 and 75/77 bullet weights in 223 that you asked for:

 

Lapua Scenar 69g BC .322 @ 3030 fps MV 400y 22/17 500 46/28 600 81/44

CorBon 69 BTHP BC.338 @3000 400 22/16 500 45/27 600 80/41

Rem 69 HPBT BC .336 @ 3000 400 22/17 500 45/27 600 81/42

Black Hills 69 SMK BC .338 @ 2850 400 25/18 500 51/29 600 90/45 (note MV effect at 500+ range)

 

 

Hornady 75g BTHP .390 @ 2790 400 24/14 500 49/25 600 86/38 (in both these 75g note increased

Black Hills 75 .390 @2750 400 25/16 500 51/26 600 89/39 drop for small wind improvement

compared to 69g at 500+)

 

CorBon 77g HPBT .350 @2800 400 25/17 500 52/29 600 92/44

Rem 77g BTHP .362 @ 2790 400 25/17 500 52/28 600 91/42

Fed 77g Match .372 @ 2720 400 26/17 500 54/28 600 94/42

Black Hills 77g SMK ..390 @ 2750 400 25/16 500 51/26 600 89/39

 

 

Now,compare 22-250:

 

Win 55g Ball S tip .267 @ 3680 400 15/16 500 33/27 600 60/42 (much less drop.same windage)

Cor bon 62g DPX .250 @ 3500 400 18/19 500 39/32 600 71/50 (but only with BC and MV by 500)

 

 

 

Note: all data are SAAMI and 24" barrel-so apples to apples (but alowing some ideaof Bcand MV effects)

 

All can be "improved" eg Ackley or hotter load,but differentials remain,and gains are small at distance 100-150 fps is not a game changer-you can see it's effects above.)Accurcy might be affected,as will be barrel life.

Bullets (and BCs) are not generally 'varmint' designs,but again the differentials/similarities will remain with varmint bullets of that weight,give/take an inch or so...

 

22/250 can easily take the 77g bullets-including the heavier Amax,which may work well. AI or not,it edges all the other 224s at distance.

All this is descriptive-not prescriptive.Only you can weih up the ballistics and your uses,as well as barrel life,cost,bullet availability etc etc.

 

204 or 223 -not both; and maybe a 22/250 for a bit more reach. 600 yards is a very long way in a Shetland houlie -data is only for a 10mph zephyr)..Of course,the 22/250 will do short range varmints rather effectively too!

At least,there is a good choice of rifles in these chamberings,including very competent factory mid range ones (Sako,eg). Enjoy.

 

g