gtigamekeeper Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Hi everyone, 1st post but been viewing this forum for a good while. I fancy a rifle that is compact and tough to sit on the quad to use for Upto 250yard carrions rooks jackdaws magpies rabbits hares etc. my job as a NY grouse beat keeper requires I have a rifle with me. I have a sako 85 xs laminate .223 with a pm11 on top. But it's too nice to get covered in muck. I have a sauer 202 .270 that Ile possibly swap for. My questions are. Is a .204 good for this purpose? I like the idea of a accuracy international folding stock. And possibly a remmy 700 on top? Where do I look for a rifle like this? I don't want to buy a remmmy 700 than take the stock off and buy a AI one. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 gti, "the 204 great-my buddy shot a crow at 176 yards,last week". And I'm sure you will get plenty such,'cos as a 250y small varmint cartridge it is very good. So is the 223 ,as you will already know-no real difference to 300y. (Techy bit for those interested: I've done it this way,as a truck gun isn't always shot under ideal conditions,with careful wind and range calculations.I have to asume some rig precision,here it's 1/2 moa; here are hit % on a 5" target at 200y and 300y for variable wind/range estimation (good 1mph/5 yards,and mediocre 5mph/50 yards;and mixes of both...1/50 and 5/5) and for three cartridges: 20 cal 40g@3700 eg Ruger 204 200y 1/5 100% 1/50 99% 5/5 95% 5/50 90% 300 1/5 100% 1/50 69% 5/5 60% 5/50 38% 224 cal 55@3800 eg 22/250 200 1/5 100% 1/50 99% 5/5 95% 5/50 97% 300 1/5 100% 1/50 75% 5/5 70% 5/50 48% 6mm70g@3500 200 1/5 100% 1/50 97% 5/5 98% 5/50 94% eg 243w 300 1/5 100% 1/50 70% 5/5 70 5/50 42% The 223 is somewhere closish to 20 cal,depending on load. All these cartridges are very good to 200y (ie better than 90% hits) under all given conditions. And to 300y but only under the best condition (1/5 ). By 300y,more error than 1/5 ( ie any bigger wind error than 1mph,or more than 5 yards range error) increases misses..eg at 5/5 the 204 has only 60% hits,though the 22/250 is a little better at 70%. By 5/50 at 300y(5mph wind error and 50 y range error) a miss is probable for them all. So,to 300y nothing in it between the likely smaller calibre cartridges-204R and 223rem or even the more potent 6mm (to 300y,anyhow- unless energy is critical) This might bear on your preferences for action/stock etc-it does widen the choice without performance compromises. Soooo..... to get back to the basic story,confident in the theory (ballistic facts)-pretty much whatever the 204 can do,the 223 can duplicate ,and vice versa. (Noise/recoil/costs don't seem of much concern-and are similar enough) I'm sure many a crow has been shot at 176y with a 223,so there you go on anecdotes :-) ( the sting in the tail-a poor shot - is that very few should be missed-and if they are,it's shooter error nearly all the time out to 300y.) I hope you find the dream package -cartridge is no problem. gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pork chop Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Good choice on the 204 poor choice on the rem 700 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Agreed on the 700. I bought a Tikka T-3 Compact in 204 as a loaner rifle for visitors to shoot prairiedogs with. It's only been shot with Hornady factory ammo but still shoots half MOA when the shooter does their job. It's light, compact and accurate. Why have one built when you can find a rifle that fits the bill on the shelf??~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pork chop Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 If factory a t3 would be my first choice they just plain shoot ,pot luck on the rem 700 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtigamekeeper Posted January 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Thanks for the replys, Some good info there. My reasoning for the remmy was that a AI folding stock would fit. My problem is the quads width. A full length rifle overhangs the sides and both front wheels. Gets covered in muck, and is likely to be taken out by awkward gateways trees etc. does the AI stock fit other makes? We have a t3 in 22.250 as a estate rifle with a starlight on top. I personally don't like it. The feel of it, magazine etc. thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 gti, I understand your added criteria-got to fit on the quad-and be readily available as opportunity pesents. If 'AI' chassis means the AICS (Accuracy International Chassis System) in any of its variations,others will know what rifles it fits. It isn't cheap,as you probably know. Have you considered the 'horse saddle scabbard' style-essentially a vertical mounted rifle holster-there were some quad versions around-they might compromise scope size etc-but it's likely on this kind of project,there will be some compromises ....I thought about using a very rigid heavy leather 'slip' I had,with sheepskin padding,and /or a rigid plastic scabbard....it's all about protection and accessibility,but that fitted both pretty well...as might the far better padded drag bags now availaable...NV gear was not involved. You probably can't compromise on accuracy if 300y crows shots 'need' to be made regularly...I'd way rather have the £ into a good Tikka/Sako(eg-as you say not your new one,rather a used one,but a tested one- given the fairly hard life.Perfect ergonomics seem unlikely in your use-cold,wet,quick set up- all the normal keeper's lot- and the end result matters more than a comfortable miss....? g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pork chop Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Plenty of stock choice for the t3 these days ,a folder and aics mags are available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtigamekeeper Posted January 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Gbal, some more good thoughts there, scabbard ive seen them, not for me and the rifle shaking and banging inside them messes it up. I have some good slips/drag bags etc, pork chop, thankyou for replying are there other makes which "bolt on stock for" ? I have another reason against tikkas, a fairly poor reason i will add, we have two apprentices and they have both bought tikka t3s in the last month, What other rifle options are there in .204 variety? Thankyou for the help. And not getting much sense out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT3_richy Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 This post might be worth a read http://ukvarminting.com/forums/topic/29509-thinking-on-the-204-but-which-factory-rifle/ Probably a good reason your apprentices bought Tikkas! I was going to say buy a Sako if you 'need' some one-upmanship over them - but you said your Sako 85 was too nice to get grubby. May be semi-custom as is mentioned in thread above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 OK,idea was a well padded rifle inside a plastic /other scabbard,so most of the shakes were absorbed by the padding-they will be there with any method of fixing the rifle to the quad,-vertical is easier than horizontal,for clearance,access and bump absorption, but if you've thought it through....fine. Apprentices seem sensible. :-) 204 is fairly popular with manufacturers. Hope you get sorted. gbal ps GT3_richys reference to previous post is good reading-the OP changed to a 223 see *36;though to 300y I'd think accuracy/shooting is the critical one -upmanship factor-if that matters. 204 makers mentioned included Remington,Ruger,Sako ,Tikka,Savage,CZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drum Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 I'm a grousekeeper and I understand the problems of carrying a rifle on a quad.It's going to get covered in crap no matter what you do.The scabbards are a good idea in theory but in practice get full of water and crap.Also don't do much for you if you need to get of the quad in a hurry,they tend to pin you in on one side of the quad.A t3 with a nice aftermarket stock would be hard to beat in my opinion.FWIW I have a cz in 223 with an 18 inch walther barrel.Dosnt overhang the quad so no dramas going through gate holes. Drum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tikka4Sika Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Gbal, some more good thoughts there, scabbard ive seen them, not for me and the rifle shaking and banging inside them messes it up. I have some good slips/drag bags etc, pork chop, thankyou for replying are there other makes which "bolt on stock for" ? I have another reason against tikkas, a fairly poor reason i will add, we have two apprentices and they have both bought tikka t3s in the last month, What other rifle options are there in .204 variety? Thankyou for the help. And not getting much sense out of me. CZ527 Varmint ...http://www.sporting-rifle.com/reviews/cz-527-review/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pork chop Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Howa seem pritty well thought of and as said cz but its the folding stock that will limit your options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 CZ527 Varmint ...http://www.sporting-rifle.com/reviews/cz-527-review/ MY 204 is one of these. Tack driver.~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldon Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 My 204 is a Tikka supervarmint and its the most accurate rifle I've got/had. How about a shortened barrel version of this, detachable mag for easy unloading, stainless synthetic for poor weather etc.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtigamekeeper Posted January 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Hi all, seems a tikka has top vote. I have a cz in .17hmr, I need to do some reading up on all the posts that have been linked. I do plan on going to the indoor shooting show and making a deal there if possible. It doesn't have to be a folding stock but it would sit nicer. Thanks for all the replys and links much appreciated.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted January 28, 2017 Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 Good choice on the 204 poor choice on the rem 700 Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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