Savage 12 FTR Info

[mitch308]

I've just bought a Savage FTR and was wondering if anyone has any advice regarding bullett seating depth and loads, I know every gun is different but I would just like some idea of a good starting point.

 

I want to shoot it from around 600 out to 1000 yds , I'm thinking of the 155 SMK Palma (2156) and TR140 Powder, as I have enough of the powder and heads for a seasons shooting, but i'm open to suggestions

 

Any help would be appreciated

 

Mitch

[The Gun Pimp]

Mitch, you'd be on the right track with 155 bullets and Vit 140 powder.

 

As always, it's up to you to find the best load but, having a few buddies who shoot these Savage FTRs, I'd be starting around 45.5gn. Increase the load in small increments looking for pressure signs and monitoring group size.

 

Seating depth is what it is - measure to the lands with a COAL device and start 20thou. off.

[deanandrew64]

do you always use the 155 smk and V140 combo in this rifle? I have loads of 155 a-max and xbr powder, have you ever tried this combination in a savage and would it be good enough to reach 1000 yards, still undecided about which rifle to start off with, have you used the savage 12 in ftr to good effect? thanks Dean Thornley

[Laurie]

Mitch, you'd be on the right track with 155 bullets and Vit 140 powder.

 

As always, it's up to you to find the best load but, having a few buddies who shoot these Savage FTRs, I'd be starting around 45.5gn. Increase the load in small increments looking for pressure signs and monitoring group size.

 

Seating depth is what it is - measure to the lands with a COAL device and start 20thou. off.

 

 

Agree completely with this advice with one caveat. The 155gn SMK #2156 is a far more 'picky' bullet than its #2155 sibling and in most rifles it groups much better with a substantial jump. The American TR / Palma brigade who use this as their 'official' bullet by their Palma teams reckon 40 thou' minimum jump, but some barrels / rifles need double that.

 

I've never had much luck with this bullet but have given it a go recently starting with a 60 thou' jump instead of my usual 15 or 20 starting position, and this made a big improvement.

[Laurie]

do you always use the 155 smk and V140 combo in this rifle? I have loads of 155 a-max and xbr powder, have you ever tried this combination in a savage and would it be good enough to reach 1000 yards, still undecided about which rifle to start off with, have you used the savage 12 in ftr to good effect? thanks Dean Thornley

 

 

Don't use the 155gn A-Max as a 1,000 yard bullet. It has an over-steep tail angle 0f 13.5-deg which causes the airflow to delaminate from the bullet walls and cause turbulence / increased drag. As well as reducing the BC (G7 0.212 compared to ~0.233 for the 155.5 Berger and #2156 SMK), it frequently causes instabilty during transonic speeds which it'll drop into at around 800 yards with 308 win MVs in a 30-inch barrel rifle and a bit less from shorter barrels and lower MVs.

 

The tail angle should be under 10 deg and better still, between 7 and 9 degrees, ALL .30 A-Max bullets fail this test, bar the 208gn model which is a true long-range design.

 

People should note too that the A-Max often generates significantly higher pressures than same weight Bergers and Sierra MKs in most barrels so that 0.5 - 1gn powder lower maxima are needed. That's not necessarily a bad thing as slackish sporter barrels often do well with the slightly fatter bullet. It's an excellent design for 600 yards, 800 at a pinch.

[deanandrew64]

thanks for the info laurie, much appreciated, use the a-max with fantastic results at 300 and 500 yards with the xbr powder, was thinking of buying a savage 12 ftr in the summer and have a few visits up to diggle, but cant find much good feedback as to how well these savage shoot at 1000 yards, thanks Dean

[Laurie]

The Savage FTRs will shoot well to 1,000. There is a slight element of chance in that being factory rifles, there isn't the near 100% consistency in barrels that you'd expect and normally get in a custom barrel from Bartlein, Benchmark, Krieger, Broughton etc. So, a significant minority shoot much better than you've any right to expect at the price, most perform quite satisfactorily and will better half-MOA with a load that they like, and the occasional 'dog' turns up.

 

The barrel boring (before the rifling is imparted by the button method) is crude in comparison to that done by a custom barrelmaker, so there are lots of toolmarks. That does mean that they take longer to 'run-in', but after 200 or 300 rounds have gone down the barrel, it doesn't seem to matter anymore. People just have to be a little patient sometimes. One has to remember too, that in creating 1,000 yard effective .308 Win loads that will group sufficiently tightly on that tiny F-Class target, the days of five, six thousand - sometimes even more - rounds life barrels have long gone. FTR competitors see the 'edge' go somewhere around 3,000 rounds - and sometimes at a lot less. So, depending on usage, you'll be getting somebody to put a custom barrel onto the rifle after two, three years anyway.

 

The Savage single-shot PTA action is a superb one in my opinion, especially given its price. Thanks to CNC, their consistency is superb and it's an inherently good action, the floating bolt-head promoting accuracy. Not everybody takes to the AccuTrigger however, and some claim they're unreliable (and/or worse, P.O.S. being a not uncommonly applied epithet on some US forums). I don't reckon they're exactly up to a benchrest Jewell's standard, but rather like them - and I do have three PTA action rifles. They are also perfectly reliable in my experience of several years and now an aggregate of several thousand rounds, provided the pull weight isn't adjusted to below 12 ounces, or with some individual actions / trigger assemblies, below 1lb.

[foxyloxy]

People should note too that the A-Max often generates significantly higher pressures than same weight Bergers and Sierra MKs in most barrels so that 0.5 - 1gn powder lower maxima are needed. That's not necessarily a bad thing as slackish sporter barrels often do well with the slightly fatter bullet. It's an excellent design for 600 yards, 800 at a pinch.

I hadn't heard that before about Amax Laurie. Does that only apply to 30 Cal Amax?

[Laurie]

Sorry, I don't know. I hadn't noticed it before I did some playing around with a 308 Howa 1500 Varminter as an 'affordable club comp rifle' a year or two back where I used Bergers, Sierras, A-Maxes and the new 178gn HPBT Berger with TR140 if I remember correctly.

 

With a trio of 155s loaded with the same weight powder batches, I was suddenly struck by how much extra pressure the top load generated with the A-Max compared to other makes, the MV also being appreciably higher. Everything else was the same, brass and primer etc. Whether coincidence or no (and I don't think it was coincidental), the 155 A-Max shot smaller groups too as a general rule in this rifle.

[Re-Pete]

I've recently been playing around with 80 grain Amax's in 223, and a load/primer combination which worked fine with 80 grain Sierra SMK's, and JLK's, blew the primers with the Amax's....................

 

H/man

[mitch308]

 

 

Agree completely with this advice with one caveat. The 155gn SMK #2156 is a far more 'picky' bullet than its #2155 sibling and in most rifles it groups much better with a substantial jump. The American TR / Palma brigade who use this as their 'official' bullet by their Palma teams reckon 40 thou' minimum jump, but some barrels / rifles need double that.

 

I've never had much luck with this bullet but have given it a go recently starting with a 60 thou' jump instead of my usual 15 or 20 starting position, and this made a big improvement.

 

Would I be better to try the 2155's, I had a similar problem with the Berger 155 VLD in a previous rifle and never really could get to grips with them, I don't want to wear a barrel out trying to find the right load

[deanandrew64]

Does anyone know when Edgars are getting a fresh batch of model 12 ftr's in stock in .308? will it be this year, thanks Dean

[Laurie]

Dean, Edgars has a big shipment due any time now from Savage - can't say what it consists of though, but I'd imagine it'll have some F-Class and F/TR rifles in it.

[deanandrew64]

Hi Laurie, many thanks for that, will get mike from calton moor range to enquire for me tomorrow, see if they have one coming in, regards Dean

[deanandrew64]

Hi Laurie, do you know what date in august the delivery is from the states to edgars, for the savage rifles? many thanks Dean

[mitch308]

 

 

Agree completely with this advice with one caveat. The 155gn SMK #2156 is a far more 'picky' bullet than its #2155 sibling and in most rifles it groups much better with a substantial jump. The American TR / Palma brigade who use this as their 'official' bullet by their Palma teams reckon 40 thou' minimum jump, but some barrels / rifles need double that.

 

I've never had much luck with this bullet but have given it a go recently starting with a 60 thou' jump instead of my usual 15 or 20 starting position, and this made a big improvement.

Ive managed to get a couple of visits to the range last week to try the Savage FTR, 1st visit to Kynoch indoor range to try a few different powder weights and then to Barton road to stretch its legs a bit

 

I loaded rounds with RS50 powder from 45.0 to 48.0 grains in 1/2 grain increments , with the 2156 palma bullet set at a 40 thou Jump, lapua palma cases and Federal match primers, To be honest I wasn't expecting to get as far as the 48.0 grain without showing pressure signs, but to my surprise there were no pressure signs on any of the loads with the 47.5 grn load giving around 1/2" group. No flat primers or cratering, easy extraction and bolt lift.

 

I planned to Chrono the loads at Kynoch but the battery died after the first shot, so I had to estimate the velocity to get my settings for Barton Road which I guessed at 2850fps, I put a few shots down range at 800yds and once zeroed (i had to come down a couple of MOA ) I was consistently in the 5 and V bull, I put the Chronograph on for the last 10 shots and was surprised to get an average velocity of 3045fps and an SD of 9

 

I plan to play around with the seating and fine tune the powder weight a bit , but for a first outing I was really impressed with the FTR

[Eagernoskill]

Note

1. The BRAND of cases you use

2. TYPE Large or Small primer can effect what the charges.

 

TR140 is a great powder - but in a large primer case about 46.0 is your upper practial charge - after that you dont get significant velocity increases.

RS52 is a great powder - meters well - can be used from 155 up to 185 gn bullets easily

[tim_pope]

I've been using the savage for about a year now and really like it.

 

I have not really refined my loads yet and have not played with the seating depth. I've also only just worked up a couple of 1000yrd loads and after some testing I really do need to refine those!

however if it's of use to you here's some info - Obvious caveat - these work in my rifle but may not be safe in yours, always start lower and work up.

 

COAL seating depths (with 15thou jump)

 

155 Lapua Scenar - 2.788in

155 Sierra (2156) - 2.876in

190 Sierra - 2.836in

 

Using Lapua cases and Murom primers these are some of the loads I used

 

with Lapua 155s and 43.5gn TR140 gave 2746fps

with SMK 155s and 44gn TR140 gave 2736fps (at the time I tested up to 46gn -> 2813 but the lower load was better for 300/600)

with SMK 155s and 45.2gn of N540 gave 2797fps (45.6gn -> 2819fps)

with SMK 155s and 45.8gn H4895 gave 2989fps (quite a high ES on this so needs work)

with SMK 190s and 46.5 N550 gave 2739fps

 

I've got some ramshot TAC to try as well at some point (a number of people have used it with 155s and seen about 3100fps) and it looks like I need to play with seating depths!

 

also if you haven't heard of it, apparently the action screws are something you should watch http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/savage-action-screw-torque-tuning/ as they can effect accuracy (not done this myself though)

[deanandrew64]

Hi Mitch 308, did you settle on the load of 47.5 RS50 powder with the 155 smk bullets, 2156, did you mange to fine tune it and was the load around the 3000 fps when you chrono the load, look forward to your reply, regards Dean