A Sign of Things To Come???

[Vermincinerator]

Those on this forum who are members will already know that Minsterly Ranges have been hit with a noise abatement order, severely curtailing shooting times on the range, in fact loosing the equivalent of 2 1/2 days of shooting per week

It seems that the fact a range has been operating in the area for near 30 years, boosting the local economy and providing a legitimate sporting activity, has no precedence over a complainer's quiet Sunday afternoon.

Is this a sign of things to come, is this another back-door way of curtailing our sport, could it effect shooting in the field?

Alycidon has already heard of complaints among the locals at a pub near to ground where he shoots, and he was using a moddy!!!

One complaint to the council and its all over mate.

With more and more people retiring to the country, their idea of the quiet country idyll is quickly shattered by gun shots and the noise police are on their side.

 

Ian.

[varminter]

Thanks for that buddy

It seems that we shooters are always in the limelight somehow!!

I think its about time we said NO to all this crap we seem to be dealt with!!!! We shooters need to stick together and support those who support us!!

Thanks again Ian...............

RAY.......................

[Guest Hoot]

I think its about time we said NO to all this crap we seem to be dealt with!!!! We shooters need to stick together and support those who support us!!

 

It'll never happen until we get one national representative body. Along the lines of the US NRA or the French Hunters Association.

[Redfox]

I will go with that Hoot, the SRA etc seemed to be going right but it never really took off.

In my experience of the many hobbies, shooting being a single or 1-3 people thing mostly suffers from "I'm alright Jack" mentality. I know clay shooting and target shooting involves more people but still " it wont happen to me/us" mentality prevails there too.

Most hobbies people get together to defend their sport but not shooting and particularly if a few quid is required, they all vanish like the morining mist!

Our current organisations are hopeless and even if they wont admit it, have a narrow field of interest.

We as you say need a national body for all forms of shooting, but making it happen will take alot of doing.

Redfox

[ejg223]

One way of solving a noise problem of a shooting range is

(if possible), to have all the noisy buggers come together.

For example the moto cross bike guys, model airplane fellas,

clay shooters and rifle range all in one area.

Lobby is stronger.

This is of course only possible if plenty area is available and

good teamwork between the different interests.

edi

[Guest 308Panther]

For example the moto cross bike guys, model airplane fellas,

clay shooters and rifle range all in one area.

Lobby is stronger.

edi

 

This is good thinking...and here may be a bit more....

In order for the "noise" to be classed as noise it needs to be defined...or over a certain decibal limit....

Is there a Hot Rod car club in the area? Talk to these guys too....What about small airports any of these around too?....Cause if the anti's are gonna pick on you for noise...

Well...everybody makes noise.Of some type.

and if they pass a noise law shouldnt all "offenders" be compliant under the same law?

You cant just point fingers at the gun shooters when there is a somebody in the same area doin a run up on his aircraft or throttle tuning a V8 with headers...or launchin a dirt bike over the camelback...

Railroads are often very noisy too....

I am also sure that a number of LEO's are shooters as well...Granted alot of them train indoors on very private ranges...but dont forget to include them as well...If these guys are included it can dead end alot

problems real quick....They may feel that they are in no position to take a stance....but sooner or later it can affet them too.Plus it never hurts to try....

An officer is only a rep of the law...Not the law itself.

 

308Panther

[Vermincinerator]

Panther,

I wish it was that simple, i shall comment on this more when i have the full facts.

 

Ian.

[shootingbags]

Edi,

 

Earlier this year Spencer (my son) was shooting an Olympic Skeet competition at Dartford Gun Club. While on the skeet ranges , in front of you was a large bank, behind that was a motocross track and behind where you were shooting was a large field where they were flying model aeroplanes! Talk about trying to keep your concentration !

[ejg223]

I presume a bit like a duck and two snipe

taking off at the same time...

Modell airplanes make good targets too.

 

If one practices under those conditions one can get used to it.

Arriving at such a venue for the first time is different.

 

What I meant earlier is just that you'll have less anti activity

if half the village is involved in some sort of noisy sport in one area.

 

edi

[Vermincinerator]

A commercial clay ground near to me has over the years had its shooting reduced to two days a week, saturday and wednesday.

They have recently submitted a planning application to extend their shooting days and build taller more efficient banking, actually 35ft tall.

The residents of a nearby village ( and i stress, not the village where the ground is located!!!!) wont have any of it.

They wont accept that the higher banking will deaden the noise, they are completely blinkered and just not interested in listening.

A public meeting has been arranged in the next couple of weeks but several objections have already been submitted, these people will not be satisfied untill all shooting has been stopped.

 

Ian.

[Guest 308Panther]

Interesting Read....

Looks like a somethings are being rethought.....

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/c...icle2409817.ece

 

 

308Panther

[tikka3006]

isnt it strange where the councils and police priorities lie, a gun goes off in the countryside an immediatly they want to ban it under some law or other, I've got a neighbour from hell two doors down who's dog howls and barks from 6 in the morning till late at night, who's 6year old child only yesterday called my 70yr old mother a f******g c**t and last week was dancing on the bonnet of my discovery the police would do nothing for me but was down my house like lightning when the drugged up mother phoned to tell them i had guns and was shouting at her kids.

 

Ian

[Guest varmartin]

A very interesting read.

 

Martin

[Guest 308Panther]

isnt it strange where the councils and police priorities lie, a gun goes off in the countryside an immediatly they want to ban it under some law or other, I've got a neighbour from hell two doors down who's dog howls and barks from 6 in the morning till late at night, who's 6year old child only yesterday called my 70yr old mother a f******g c**t and last week was dancing on the bonnet of my discovery the police would do nothing for me but was down my house like lightning when the drugged up mother phoned to tell them i had guns and was shouting at her kids.

 

Ian

 

Dip a piece of meat in antifreeze or brake fluid for the dog...and coat the bonnet with vaseline or other slippery stuff for the kid....

 

308Panther

[Vermincinerator]

If the kid slipped off the bonnet and hurt himself Tikka would be up $hit creek without a paddle

The poor little lamb has more rights to carry out his wrong doing then Tikka has to stop him

 

Ian

[tikka3006]

I think it should be the other way round vasaline for the dog (DON'T ASK) And poison for the kid or at least for the mother the way see breeds I think she has two wombs

 

I think we've gon off topic a little here

 

Ian

[Alycidon]

It'll never happen until we get one national representative body. Along the lines of the US NRA or the French Hunters Association.

 

That is so right, ONE organisation taking the best bits out of the existing crop , maybe a levy on cartridges/bullets to help fund it.

 

A

[Guest 308Panther]

That is so right, ONE organisation taking the best bits out of the existing crop , maybe a levy on cartridges/bullets to help fund it.

A

 

It the money went where it was supposed too...it would be a good thing.

But ....it never does.

It always ends up in someone elses pocket.

Namely a fat cat that has no claim or entitlement whatso ever.

 

Here. A certain percentage of our hunting license fees is supposed to got to the Fisheries for the raising of Trout and to the Hatchery for the Release of Pheasant....well...

Over the last 4 years alot of that money has been diverted to the research of Deer CWD.

Its a large amount that has been diverted.....

Over 30 Million dollars.

 

308Panther

[Redfox]

That is a lot of money and surely that research should have been funded by the USF&WS or one of these universities for someone "doing his/her PhD.

Exactly the same here, money goes to the most undeserving causes.

I'm not in favour of levies on ammo or anything else, THAT REALLY WOULD BE MISUSED, mainly to price us out of shooting altogether, shut up Alycidon! before someone in government takes that up.

Redfox

[Guest 308Panther]

The USF&WS is as guilty also....

If I remember correctly.....they are still tied up in court explaining themselfs on the Pittman- Robertson

funds and that number amount starts with a capitol "B"....as in Billions.....and yes... that would be plural...They cant account for 14 Billion dollars.

The interest alone for one day on 14 Billion dollars would be more than enough to keep me happily hunting for many many years....

 

And if that isnt enough.....I dont know if your seeing it yet...But the amount that the cost of ammo has increased on the retail end is really scary....I have been seeing 150 gr sp 308 hunting ammo at $25/box....

Match grade stuff ....You dont even want to look at.

 

So why bother addin an extra tax that isnt gonna go where its supposed to go....

Ammo costs are high enough....

It was mentioned earlier that the rising costs of ammo were to price us out of shooting....

I fear that this is closer to the truth then we can imagine or know.

 

308Panther

[taffy]

I have no great love of the Patron at Minsterley Ranges, but I feel compelled to say that this is the thin end of the wedge for us all. How on earth can a noise restriction be placed on Minsterley? It took me two days to find the bloody place when I first went!!

The only thing I've ever seen there or on the way has been a shooter coming or going or the indiginous sheep who don't give a stuff.

I have no doubt that Dave Ryan has argued his case, how about a petition that we all sign and send in to the local authority, Police (who use the range) M.P. whatever. Don't let the bastards grind us down!!!!!!

[Guest 308Panther]

how about a petition that we all sign and send in to the local authority, Police (who use the range) M.P. whatever. Don't let the bastards grind us down!!!!!!

 

Now your talkin....

Forming a petition to show that there is a majority can be very convincing....

 

Something else to consider as well......

Shooters have a tendency to spend money....

If there isnt a pub on the grounds they usually meet in a known pub close by...

Plus the vehicles we drive need gas or fuel....or sometimes we need a quick

snack on the drive....so it would be a very good idea to mention that limiting

the range's operation hours would have an economic impact on the outlying areas...

 

Besides.... thats not mentioning that there is usually a certain lack of criminal influences

where there are armed citizens....

Or the amount of honesty that is connected with or to firearm owners.....

I have know guys to forget their shotgun in the rack at the club only to see another member

bring it into the club and turn it over to the Range Officer....The very embarassed gun owner

was very very happy to get it back a day or two later.It would have been too easy for the finder to

take it home for themselves....but they didnt.

 

308Panther

[Alycidon]

A commercial clay ground near to me has over the years had its shooting reduced to two days a week, saturday and wednesday.

They have recently submitted a planning application to extend their shooting days and build taller more efficient banking, actually 35ft tall.

The residents of a nearby village ( and i stress, not the village where the ground is located!!!!) wont have any of it.

They wont accept that the higher banking will deaden the noise, they are completely blinkered and just not interested in listening.

A public meeting has been arranged in the next couple of weeks but several objections have already been submitted, these people will not be satisfied untill all shooting has been stopped.

 

Ian.

 

And that village is within a mile as the crow flies of the M1, the M45 and the West Coast main rail line.

 

My comments on an ammo levy to fund a national organisation is the way I think the americans do it and raise big money as well. I know quite a lot of farmers and the like who buy a few rounds here and there and contribute nothing to the future of their sport. Ammo cost is a tiny part of the cost of a days sport, it would be a sad day if we lost sections of it because we were not adequetly funded to fight the opposition.

 

It is perhaps a sad endightment of the worst about national organisations when we hear comment from 308 panther about a country I thought had got it about right on a sport representation front that all is perhaps not as it should be.

 

It seems we all have a way still to go but personally I believe that the one big group is the way forward. How impressive was it to be part of the 400,000 plus in London the other year, not that in the long term that did a lot of good.

 

A

[Guest Hoot]

Als

 

Right! Politicians and political parties are only ever swayed by numbers.

 

I went to each and every march, rally, and meeting in the campaign to protect hunting. It was too little to late. The anti hunting brigade had done the hearts and minds job on the voting public before we had even stepped off the coaches and trains for the first mass meetings.

 

The time to fight the on coming battle is now, not when the private members bills are being read in the House of Commons, not when they are being voted on in the upper house and not when, they had been dumped into the statute books as a means of either winning votes or deflecting back bencher's from the lies the prime minister and his cabinet had been telling for months previously.

[Guest 308Panther]

My comments on an ammo levy to fund a national organisation is the way I think the americans do it and raise big money as well.

 

It is perhaps a sad endightment of the worst about national organisations when we hear comment from 308 panther about a country I thought had got it about right on a sport representation front that all is perhaps not as it should be.

 

Occaisionally we hear how x amount of every purchase of brand x ammo goes to this fund or that fund......I cant say wether or not this is true.I do believe tho that the arangement is prearanged.

That is to mean that an organisation like, say.... the National Wild Turkey Assoc for instance will go to an ammo manufacture and they commision that a run of 10,000 boxes of ammo has the NWTA logo on it....from there the ammo manufacture will make the donation,since the advertising money the Organisation paid the ammo maker to have the logo on the Box is bonus money to the ammo maker

for exposure to the organisation...

It is not a continuing arrangement that goes on for x amount of years....or if it is...its news to me...

 

Our system is just as flawed....and when you have the amount of money at stake there is...well ,sooner or later someone is gonna find a loophole to get at that money or they just plain take it.

 

Take another example...

Here...x amount of pheasent license sold goes to the State Hatchery. or so they claim...

That is only true if the only license I bought was a Pheasant license....

I buy a package called a Patrons license...and it groups all the huntin licenses together...

Since Pheasant is included in the Patrons you would still think a small part still goes to the State Hatchery,Right?.........Well if you did...You were wrong....

Patrons license money get routed differantly...and it all goes to the State.Sure the State hatchery is still state subsidized...but the amount that it benefits from my patrons license is pennies...not dollars,like it would be if I were to buy just a pheasant license...

 

So then the next logical thing would be to buy every license seperatly....I sat down and figured it out one year...To hunt Ducks,Geese,Turkey,Pheasant.Woodcock,Grouse,Squirrel for the licences and stampsit would cost $100

 

For $110 for a Patrons License..I can hunt Ducks,Geese,Turkey,Woodcock,Grouse....Deer(archer and Gun) plus...I get all my fishing licenses too at the same time....

 

Its more costly to me by 3x if I were to buy every license seperatly.

 

I am not by any means independantly wealthy....So I have to do what I can to save money just like the next guy.

 

308Panther