alled12 Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Lads Having just ordered one of these hopefully it should arrive before christmas, I was wondering if anyone on the site has one or has experience of using one? All info will be greatfully recieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 I know very little about this kind of thing! What will you be using it for? It's an unusual choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 NOT an unusall choice , IF he is buying it to suppress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Suppressed or not, it would still be an unusual choice as a hunting weapon. I have owned may 44 magnum rifles and never found much to do with them. Fun to shoot though. Don't be too surprised if it kicks considerably more then you expect! I had a Remington Model 788 carbine in .44 magnum and it kicked the bejezus out of me... at least when I was wearing a tee-shirt. Odd considering I shoot the heaviest .44 magnum handgun loads without a hitch.~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 A very good choice for hunting my friend! I have the Ruger 96/44 which is the lever action version with 4 shot rotary mag. I have taken a lot of foxes with it, Hares, rabbits etc.. I cast my own 310gr bullets, using the Lee casting mold. I use the Lee sizing die .430" which also puts the gas check on the back. It is advisable to use gas checks if shooting high velocity to stop gasses burning and cutting the lead. I then use liquid allox to apply the lube, which is easy to put on by pouring a teaspoon of it in a bag with the finished lead bullet heads and massage it around to work the lube onto the bullets, you then put the bullets on grease proof paper and leave to dry over night. I have screw cut the barrel and now have one of our MYM stainless T8 mods on. It is absolutely fantastic! and I am now experimenting with subsonic loads because thats what I'm more interested in. The only problem with subsonic loads is that the case doesn't have the pressure to expand and fill the chamber so you get a lot of soot up the body of the brass case. There is many copper jacketed bullet heads available ranging from 180gr hollow point right upto 300gr. My experience at the moment has only been with the solid lead 310gr bullet so far as I have not had the time to play. The recoil is no more than an average 308 win and is very nice to shoot. I will post a pic of it here when I get home. ACPO guide lines say that this calibre is not suitable for deer. I would like to see who made that decision. In my mind the whole issue of what calibre's and velocity or energy are suitable for what species needs to be re classified and done properly by people in the know like myself ha! but thats another chapter altogether! My only criticism on the 96/44 is that the bullets have to be loaded so they cycle in the mag. This is a big problem because now I can't adjust seating depths to get the best accuracy. I have to seat them back but it's ok as now I can make use of the crimp groove and it looks nice like this. Another problem is that most 44 Rem mag reamers are still made to the old revolver design, where the throat is miles away. If you were to try and touch the lands on some of the 44 chambers the bullet would be completely out of the brass case. The throat being so far is the main causes of not grouping as tight as it could. My average group using the 310gr solid lead bullet with nearly no load development is around 2-3 inches at 100 yards. Its a little hard to accept the group as my guns are absolute tack driver's. However given that pistol bullets are not exactly streamlined its a short barrel throat miles away and a factory barrel, I can live with it. The reason I choose this rifle was for close up work and it does its job VERY nicely indeed. Alled12, I hope you have a lot of fun and enjoy the new rifle. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Great post Lee. You found us then ? The only drawback to the ruger in the UK, is actually getting one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alled12 Posted October 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Lee Nice info mate thanks. I will be using 240 semi wad cutters for the range solid hard cast bullets, and then its 210 grain winchester silver tip for the other stuff. In my neck of the woods the person I know who has a m77/44 has it listed for deer. The figures stack up for deer in England Wales and N.Ireland but not scotland it is muzzle velocity that is the issue. 454 cassull can get there but I dont think you can push a 44 magnum to 2450fps unfortunately. I was going to ask what moderators would be avialable for this rilfe, I dont want to crop to much of the barrel as I want to keep the velocities up. viking have 14 on order from the USA and one of them is now mine, apparently they have already sold 8. Got a very nice 1.5-6x42 swarovski for the top should be a good setup. Aside from the T8 are there any other moderators available for this calibre? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Hay Dave thanks.. Here is a piccy of my little baby alled12, I don't know what other make of mods are available in this calibre. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Lee: I read your post with interest. Why would you want to load "long" instead of making use of the crimp groove? I have loaded for single shots and seated the bullets out a ways but have never gotten the same accuracy as crimped loads. If you can (And don't already) try a taper crimp die. Works well!~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Why would you want to load "long" instead of making use of the crimp groove? Andrew, It is almost always the case that where the bullet is seated in relation to the throat lead-in adversely affects group size. One of my best and most accurate ways of getting a rifle to shoot tight groups is to find the perfect seating depth. After the primer has been selected and powder type with the bullet seated .010" away from the lands, I work up my load until I'm happy about the pressure and velocity. I then start loading 4 batches of 3 rounds each set at different trial seating depths. typically spaced in .010" increments. They are then shot on target in their batches to analyze which depth is giving the tightest group. It is quite usual to find that most rifles in my experience shoot tight groups with good quality handloads when bullets are seated anywhere from .005" to .030" from the lands. In some cases I have heard that 0.010" to 0.030" into the lands can have the same effect with group size, but I have never needed to do this as all my loads shoot best away from the lands. If you can (And don't already) try a taper crimp die. Works well!~Andrew I use the Lee carbide crimp die which I think is the taper crimp you are referring too. As I said I'm pretty much forced to do this anyway and I like the crimped look, it finishes it off nicely. However I would never crimp any other rifle load for precision shooting. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 I am familiar with the concept of seating to the lands, or off as the case may be. Whatever works is usually Ok with me. In the case of the .44 in particular, I just noticed the best accuracy in single shots (where cylinder length isn't a consideration, like with revolvers.) came from loads that were pretty much seated to the crimping groove. I think you're getting fine accuracy from your 96 Ruger and wonder if it could really be improved upon. The Lee die is exactly what I was thinking of. I won't get into the topic of crimping but to say that I have some finely accurate varmint loads that utilize a crimp. Precision?? No. But half MOA which is good enough for the prairiedogs in my neighborhood! BTW: I am a huge Model 96 fan. I have four of them but all in rimfire, but all custom barreled. A .22, a 17Mach 2, a 22WMR, and a 17HMR. I think it's one of Ruger's best designs... along the lines of a Winchester Model 88. I am sorry that they discontinued them. Did you rework the trigger on yours? ~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 The trigger is ok as it is for a general plinking and close up work gun, I could have a go improving it but I can't be botherd!!!!. One thing I did do is mod the plunger for the magazine and also replace the plunger and spring that locks the underlever in place. I found that it was too light and the Lever was too easy to fall down with the slightest of nudges. Its much better now and locks in place with a very positive feel to it. I also modified the magazine retaining plunger as to me it was a silly design to have to put the lever in the down position AND then push the mag retaining plunger to get the rotary mag out. It was doing my head in, so now the mag now drops out just by pressing the catch, like a Ruger 10/22 works. Anyway, we better not hijack alled12's thread anymore!!. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alled12 Posted October 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Not a problem lads very interesting read so far. I am very much looking forward to getting my hands on the M77/44 it promises to be a seriously fun rifle. Lee whats the noise level like with and without the mod on do you get much noise reduction? Have you tried it with subsonics that should be really interesting? I like the fact that 500 semi wadcutters at bisley was just £35, not bad I am using to shelling out a heck of alot more for my reloading bits. Lee I know that yours is a lever action and I am acquiring a bolt action have you got a pet load or two? Thanks for all the info do far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Alled12, I did some testing last week @ 100yards with a whole bunch of different copper jacketed bullet heads. It was not the calmest of days but I had to get on with it. Its the first real testing I have done. I decided to use H110, which seems the ideal powder to use on all the loads. I was quite impressed with some of the 'thrown together loads' and thought I'd show you what I got with two particular bullets. My best group was shot with Magtech's 240gr SJSP bullet. Load was 23gr H110 seated to 1.560 COL and 3/4 crimped. Velocity was 1701,1679,1686fps Hodgdon estimated 1750fps pictured below. The Hornday 300gr XTP - Hodgdon recommended starting charge of 18gr of H110. I seated them to 1.595 COL with a 3/4 crimp. The stated velocity was 1393fps. With my 3 shot group I got 1344,1339,1347fps and produced the group pictured below. My only concern is that the cases had a fair amount of smoking around them. The smoking on a bottle neck type rifle cartridge means the cases are not expanding quick enough and is bad news because all the pressure of the recoil is going directly on the bolt face, however this is a straight wall case and my experience is very limited with this type of case so I don't know if this is normal. I guess I could put more powder in to build the pressure and check to see if it stops?? but, I'm happy so far Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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