243 Load

[eric]

Hi All. I have a question for you guys I made a load up for my sako 243. lapua case .cci standard primer. 87grain Vmax. and 43 grains N160 this gave me a 3 shot group of .574 minus 243 = 331. my point is after looking again at the Viht reloading guide I find that I should have started at 44.2 as you can see this is a bummer when I had what I thought was a good load. What would you do or recommend ? Thanks Eric.

[weejohn]

I certainly would never use a load under the minimum recommended.

 

If you have loaded a few i would pull them and start again.

 

For me i dont start at minimum load and work up.

 

I pick the middle load between min/max and then work up till i start to get pressure signs.

[v-max]

Hi All. I have a question for you guys I made a load up for my sako 243. lapua case .cci standard primer. 87grain Vmax. and 43 grains N160 this gave me a 3 shot group of .574 minus 243 = 331. my point is after looking again at the Viht reloading guide I find that I should have started at 44.2 as you can see this is a bummer when I had what I thought was a good load. What would you do or recommend ? Thanks Eric.

Hi under the minimum load is worse than going over the max so as said pull them all. I think you may find it better as you work up & find the sweet spot. I know you have N160 but hodgdons Varget is a great powder for the cal & bullet you shoot.

[jack]

Vit loads in their manual are said to be a bit hot from what I was told.

It is similar to one chaps load I have read.

He used 43.5 for the 85gr Sierra varminter and he was getting just over 3000fps.

I have been using 46Gr and that is too fast at 3224fps.

I am going to do some load development starting at 43gr and work up.

 

http://www.airgunbbs.com/forums/showthread...6333&page=2

Posts 26 and 31

 

So if it works go with it.

[menial 1]

Don't worry Eric, you're not below the minimum load at all. I run 85gr Sierras at 43.5gr Viht 160 giving 3080fps and this is considered generally to be .5gr under maximum load for that weight, you're rifle and the groups will tell you when you are right or wrong.

44.2 under 87rg V-max would seem a fairly high starting point in my opinion.

 

Jack, that is my load on the BBS, and 44gr is given as max powder load in my data. I use around 47gr Viht 160 with 70gr bullets and 48gr is given as maximum.

Some of the newer load datas would appear a little hot to me and if I was looking to find a safe starting point with 87gr V-max, I'd kick off at 42.5 and work up in .5gr increments.

Pete.

[Laurie]

Eric,

 

Hornady's own loads for the 87 V-Max with N160 start at 40.1gn (2,900 fps) and their max is 43.6gn (3,100 fps), so 43gn is certainly not under-loaded.

 

For some reason, there seems to be a greater discrepancy between sources for this powder in .243 Win than most, and (most unusually) some of Viht's own listed loads are decidedly 'hot'.

 

Not 100% comparable as they're same weight but maybe differently constructed, Nosler quotes 40-44gn N160 for its 85gn Partition and 90gn Ballistic Tip, in line with the Hornady loads rather than Viht. As quoted by Pete (Menial), 40-44gn N160 is the usual range for this powder with similar weight bullets from other makers, so Viht's 44-48gn is well out of line with everybody else.

 

I can only assume Vihtavuori's ballistic lab's test barrel was on the loose side for this cartridge, or it was an unusually 'slow' batch of powder. When I tried a few N160 loads last winter in a new Remy 700 SPS stainless, I got a couple of loads where Viht's maximum were clearly over the top, especially the 80gn Hornady FMJ where Hornady's maximum is 45gn and Viht's is 50.3gn - a staggering difference! I couldn't get any more than 49gn into the case as a maximum charge in my test range and found it gave excessive pressures.

 

So the message is beware of the N160 loads for this cartridge if taken from the Viht manual.

 

Laurie

[eric]

Don't worry Eric, you're not below the minimum load at all. I run 85gr Sierras at 43.5gr Viht 160 giving 3080fps and this is considered generally to be .5gr under maximum load for that weight, you're rifle and the groups will tell you when you are right or wrong.

44.2 under 87rg V-max would seem a fairly high starting point in my opinion.

 

Jack, that is my load on the BBS, and 44gr is given as max powder load in my data. I use around 47gr Viht 160 with 70gr bullets and 48gr is given as maximum.

Some of the newer load datas would appear a little hot to me and if I was looking to find a safe starting point with 87gr V-max, I'd kick off at 42.5 and work up in .5gr increments.

Pete.

 

 

Thanks for the replies chaps. Vmax I have tried Varget the results were not that good. I too got my load of 43g out of the Nosler manual.and thought the results were outstanding for my grade of shooting and as I said I then looked in the Viht manual. and the doubts crept in. So I have loaded 3 sets of 3 starting at 44.5 45.5 46.2 all N160 under 87g Vmax so I am off down the range this morning to see what happens Im not very confident at the moment. Also I have loaded some Nosler 70g starting at 50.51 52 all N160 Pete I too used to load 47g Viht under a70 Nosler and found them to be very good but then they went and changed the info and their powder so at the mo I dont have aload for 70gnosler. Eric.

[menial 1]

Eric, they sound more like .243Ackley Improved loads to me. I have to agree with Lauries post and suggest you reduce your loads before things go tits up.

With 40-43gr Viht 160 under 87gr V-max you should still see 3000fps without it becoming dodgy.

45-47gr Viht 160 gives 3400fps+ with 70gr bt's and 49gr is given as maximum load.

If I was putting 51gr+ in my .243 I'd clamp it in a workmate and tie ten yards of string to the trigger, walk the the ten yards, then give the string a tug,

good luck to you Eric, you may need it.

Pete.

[weejohn]

I have to say thanks eric for starting this topic as i had no idea

that load data for .243 varied so tremendously.

I have always used the vhit load data.

[eric]

Thanks for the replies chaps. Vmax I have tried Varget the results were not that good. I too got my load of 43g out of the Nosler manual.and thought the results were outstanding for my grade of shooting and as I said I then looked in the Viht manual. and the doubts crept in. So I have loaded 3 sets of 3 starting at 44.5 45.5 46.2 all N160 under 87g Vmax so I am off down the range this morning to see what happens Im not very confident at the moment. Also I have loaded some Nosler 70g starting at 50.51 52 all N160 Pete I too used to load 47g Viht under a70 Nosler and found them to be very good but then they went and changed the info and their powder so at the mo I dont have aload for 70gnosler. Eric.

 

 

 

Just got back from the range after testing 3 sets of 3 loads one of which might with a tweak here and there be ok. that one was 46.2 N160 87gVmax if I go any higher the bolt is stiff so I will try 46g and maybe 45.8 But to be truthfull I,v seen better shotgun pattens. Also I made a complete cockup of the 70g loads I loaded 9 rounds only 3 of which had primers in, blame it on a senior moment . Eric

[Guest varmartin]

Eric...one thing to look out for when working up `Ballistic tip ` loads ...especially with the 87 grain Vmax heads ...` tip concentricity`..

 

Now I am not sure weather the tip being `out of true`is the governing factor or whether it has just been an indicator of a bad batch of heads...

 

I am aware of a number of guys that have come away from the 87`s due to batch problems....

 

A simple `roll um on a bench` test is usually sufficient to indicate whether there is a problem or not...

 

Hope this is of help...

[Laurie]

Just got back from the range after testing 3 sets of 3 loads one of which might with a tweak here and there be ok. that one was 46.2 N160 87gVmax if I go any higher the bolt is stiff so I will try 46g and maybe 45.8 But to be truthfull I,v seen better shotgun pattens.

 

Eric,

 

it looks like you're still running a bit hot if you're just below the point where bolt-lift gets hard. Three things would concern me on running at this level:

 

case life. Primer pockets will likely slacken pretty quickly.

 

temperatures. It's getting cooler now, so a 'warm load' may be over-pressure on a hot summer's day. N160 is a fine powder, but is definitely temperature sensitive unlike the Hodgdon 'Extreme' powders that don't give a fig for what the weather's doing.

 

different component lots. Viht is pretty good with little variation between manufacturing lots. Even so, a new tub might push pressures up more than you'd like.

 

Laurie

[menial 1]

Just got back from the range after testing 3 sets of 3 loads one of which might with a tweak here and there be ok. that one was 46.2 N160 87gVmax if I go any higher the bolt is stiff so I will try 46g and maybe 45.8 But to be truthfull I,v seen better shotgun pattens. Also I made a complete cockup of the 70g loads I loaded 9 rounds only 3 of which had primers in, blame it on a senior moment . Eric

 

Most of us test up to pressure signs Eric, to find out where they begin. Most accuracy nodes can be found on middling loads rather than top end velocity as you've now discovered. Not much point in tweaking shotgun patterns.

Pete.

[eric]

Most of us test up to pressure signs Eric, to find out where they begin. Most accuracy nodes can be found on middling loads rather than top end velocity as you've now discovered. Not much point in tweaking shotgun patterns.

Pete.

 

Once again thanks for the replies and thanks for the convidence boost I think I will give the 43g Viht. 87g vmax a run for awhile Will also try some N140 under 70g nos and see what happens. All The Best eveybody.

[eric]

Hi Pete. I tried the 87 vmax with 43g N160 again at the weekend and got the same results as before. ie a clover leaf group so I,m happy with that. I loaded up some 70g nos over 47g N160 no good at all. Did you use the old powder in your 70g loads by that I mean before the new load data came out ? I would like to get a load for the 70s as it seems a waste to have them laying about. The 70g Nos 47g N160 shot very well in my Tikka 595. 243 ,but are realy crap in the Sako. Eric

[eldon]

In my sako, using 70 gr sierra 1507's, CCI primers and n140 at 39 grains worked well. Not the fastest and not maxed out so could be worth a try for you Eric.

[eric]

In my sako, using 70 gr sierra 1507's, CCI primers and n140 at 39 grains worked well. Not the fastest and not maxed out so could be worth a try for you Eric.

 

 

Thanks eldon I wiil give it a try. Do you have the old Viht manual ( thats the one before this one )

if so would you mind sending me a copy of the load data for 243 ? as the got rid of mine when the latest one came out Thanks again Eric.

[eldon]

Eric when you say old vit manual be a bit more specific, which one do you have or which one do you want. I have a few somewhere on the computer.

 

How about edition 6 updated july 2008?

I probably have older versions on paper so could scan them in.

Let me know which one.

[menial 1]

Hi Pete. I tried the 87 vmax with 43g N160 again at the weekend and got the same results as before. ie a clover leaf group so I,m happy with that. I loaded up some 70g nos over 47g N160 no good at all. Did you use the old powder in your 70g loads by that I mean before the new load data came out ? I would like to get a load for the 70s as it seems a waste to have them laying about. The 70g Nos 47g N160 shot very well in my Tikka 595. 243 ,but are realy crap in the Sako. Eric

 

The 47gr Viht 160 and 70gr Nosler at 40thou out , Lapua case and CCI primer shot well in my M595 as well.

Drop the powder to 45gr and work up 1/2gr at a time to see if that works or perhaps try H380, Viht 140, Viht 150 to see if a quicker powder helps.

Quite a few use Reloader 19 in .243, usually gives higher velocities with around 44-45gr giving accurate safe loads.

The Speer No 13 loading manual is a particularly good source for safe .243 loads.

Pete.

[eric]

Eric when you say old vit manual be a bit more specific, which one do you have or which one do you want. I have a few somewhere on the computer.

 

How about edition 6 updated july 2008?

I probably have older versions on paper so could scan them in.

Let me know which one.

 

 

 

Eldon. I have the 7th edition. so a page relating to 243 loads in edition 5 &6 would be fine thanks

looking at the date on the poweder container reads 2007 . Eric

[eric]

The 47gr Viht 160 and 70gr Nosler at 40thou out , Lapua case and CCI primer shot well in my M595 as well.

Drop the powder to 45gr and work up 1/2gr at a time to see if that works or perhaps try H380, Viht 140, Viht 150 to see if a quicker powder helps.

Quite a few use Reloader 19 in .243, usually gives higher velocities with around 44-45gr giving accurate safe loads.

The Speer No 13 loading manual is a particularly good source for safe .243 loads.

Pete.

 

Pete . Thanks for the info. I,v tried H380 that was no good. am trying N140 at the moment Will look into the others later. Maybe I should just go back to the 595 but I am looking to sell it in the future.

Eric.

[menial 1]

Let me know when you're parting with the M595, I'll sell my Remmy .308 and rebarrel yours There's no way I'd sell my 595, one of the best factory actions made, ideal for customising.

Pete.

[eldon]

Old documents scanned as requested.

Let me know if you need any other calibers.

 

 

[eldon]

Don't you just love computers some times, I don't know why the data sheet has gone in upside down ?

 

Added later,

Now corrected if you can't read the lower print right click on your mouse save and view image then its better.

[stag1933]

I have read these posts carefully and notice one significant detail.

There are no `standards` being used therefore the info. is not a rational study.

 

Each rifle is an individual which may be different to others.

Brass of different makers may not have the same internal capacity.

Primers used may have a different `burn rate`ie :- Magnums, Standards or Match etc.

Seating depth is not standardised.

 

 

All or any of these factors can influence the result on paper not taking the skill of the shooter into consideration.

 

HWH.