wilson hand dies or co-ax press

[Scotch_egg]

I've got a 6mmbr in the pipeline and need advice on the reloading kit. I have been using Lee kit for my .243 and 7-08 but I realise that the 6mmbr needs some TLC.

 

 

So hand dies or a co-ax (what dies if this route?)?

 

Cheers

 

Dave

 

 

ps

 

 

I think we should have a 6mmbr sticky because it appears to be the best varminting round going. I know we have 6mmbr.com but the exerpience on this site is worth it's salt this side of the pond.

[Alycidon]

Wilson dies in an arbour press are easiest to use and cheapest to buy, dont forget an anvil for it as well.

 

You may though need to ease the shoulder back maybe every 5 reloads so a full length Redding die for that is handy. My BR uses Redding full length die, Wilson neck die and seater.

 

I would agree that the BR (and PPC) have an ideal capacity for a varmint round.

 

A

[Laurie]

Like many, I use both and there are pros and cons for each type. The Co-Ax with good dies (Forster or Redding) will produce superb results, as good as most people need for most uses. It has the big plus of flexibility - slip the die for one cartridge out and replace it with one for another.

 

The main disadvantage of most factory dies when you get onto precision reloading is necks are sized down over-much before being re-expanded to the correct diameter. This can be overcome by using bushing dies or a sizer with a user-specified neck section diameter (Forster do this for a fee).

 

Wilson type hand dies offer the highest degree of concentricity - case and seated bullet - but you only get those benefits with top quality and prepared brass, and if the rifle chamber is equally precisely machined. In fact, factory rifles regularly give better results with full-length sized brass because their chambers and hence fired cases are slightly out of round. The rifle also has to be well enough made to appreciate the very fine difference in ammo quality, otherwise no measurable benefit is seen.

 

Then there is the ease of chambering / extraction issue. Wilson dies only neck-size. Most BR shooters rattle them off quickly and want effortless rifle operation, so it's usual to use a 7/8X14tpi 'body die' in a conventional press (albeit a small portable precision type such as the Harrell's Precision model) to size the body down, and move the shoulder back marginally before using the Wilson die on the neck.

 

Finally, and this may be the killer, using a hand die may reduce accuracy unless the case is neck-turned. This is because the bushing only works the outside of the neck squeezing it in. If the brass has any inconsistencies in thickness, they're transferred to the inside surfaces - ie you seat a bullet into an out of round hole - that's why most dies have an expander set-up as well as making the die cope with neck thickness variations between makes of brass or batches of brass. BR shooters, or those who prepare their cases to BR levels, reduce those variations to damn near nil, hence ideally suited to a hand die.

 

If you look at what long-range precsion shooters use for F-Class and 1,000yd BR etc, it's quite common to find a top quality conventional bushing type die in a press used for sizing, and a Wilson hand die used for bullet seating because the latter does keep everything so concentric.

 

6BR is a lovely little cartridge, and one of its great pluses is that you can reduce your workload by running with a 'no-turn' neck chamber in the rifle geared to Lapua brass and losew nothing in the accuracy department. There is no benefit in neck turning most batches of said Lapua 6BR brass, and you get very get good results from it with Forster or Redding die sets. One thing to watch if my example is anything to go by is the shoulder position - my Forster FL sizer and Redding body die both push the shoulder back far too much if set at the normal shellholder against die bottom position. This produces excess headspace, reduces accuracy and causes the case to stretch excessively on each firing.

 

So far as the Co-Ax is concerned, I have one and consider it the Rolls-Royce of conventional presses. the floating die set arrangement should give better cartridge concentricity than many (but not all) presses where the die is screwed into the frame, but the real benefits are in its smoothness and power. The automatic shellholder is great, well great until you have dismantle it and reverse the jaws to suits a different case 'family' - eg .308 Win and similar v .222, .223. .204 Ruger diameter cases. If I had a really good Redding or the RCBS Rockchucker press already, I wouldn't switch though to the Co-Ax just for the real but marginal benefits of the floating die and co-axial arrangement. (Unless your existing press is producing cartridges with lots of run-out that is!)

 

I hope these thoughts help.

 

Laurie

[Alycidon]

The main disadvantage of most factory dies when you get onto precision reloading is necks are sized down over-much before being re-expanded to the correct diameter. This can be overcome by using bushing dies or a sizer with a user-specified neck section diameter (Forster do this for a fee).

 

 

Laurie

 

My 20BR came with 6 neck bushes each .0005 different and a stepped gauge to measure case neck ID after resize to ensure that any with differing spring back were id'ed and resized again with the next bush down. Normally about 1 in 10 requires this further attention. Ensures neck tension is as close as possable.

 

So differing neck bushes can be made in the UK.

 

 

A

[Scotch_egg]

Laurie,

 

Your in put is greatly appreciated. I'm going for the no turn neck as min SAAMI spec to keep things simple.

 

Alycidon,

 

I like the idea of using the redding full length die with the wilson neck and seater dies.

 

 

 

cheers

 

Dave

[mole-e30]

I use a wilson neck die for all the calibres I shoot, however....

 

Like Laurie says with turned necks on my 6ppc I dont bother expanding the case neck afterwards to make sure that the inside diameter is correct.

 

However all my other calibres are no-neck turn and as such I have to run them over a Sinclair expander die after neck sizing to make sure that the inside diameter is correct.

 

The reason I use Wilson dies, is that I like them and for my setup they are very portable.

 

I love the seating dies and to be honnest wouldnt use anything else.

 

I also use a Body die to bump the shoulders back when needed.

 

Hope this helps

 

Bruce

[n8ess]

Hi Laurie,

 

Great write up, could you expand a little more on what we should be looking for when setting up the body die in relation to the shell holder.

 

Cheers

 

Neil

 

6BR is a lovely little cartridge, and one of its great pluses is that you can reduce your workload by running with a 'no-turn' neck chamber in the rifle geared to Lapua brass and losew nothing in the accuracy department. There is no benefit in neck turning most batches of said Lapua 6BR brass, and you get very get good results from it with Forster or Redding die sets. One thing to watch if my example is anything to go by is the shoulder position - my Forster FL sizer and Redding body die both push the shoulder back far too much if set at the normal shellholder against die bottom position. This produces excess headspace, reduces accuracy and causes the case to stretch excessively on each firing.

 

So far as the Co-Ax is concerned, I have one and consider it the Rolls-Royce of conventional presses. the floating die set arrangement should give better cartridge concentricity than many (but not all) presses where the die is screwed into the frame, but the real benefits are in its smoothness and power. The automatic shellholder is great, well great until you have dismantle it and reverse the jaws to suits a different case 'family' - eg .308 Win and similar v .222, .223. .204 Ruger diameter cases. If I had a really good Redding or the RCBS Rockchucker press already, I wouldn't switch though to the Co-Ax just for the real but marginal benefits of the floating die and co-axial arrangement. (Unless your existing press is producing cartridges with lots of run-out that is!)

 

I hope these thoughts help.

 

Laurie