Reloading for Long Range

[LiamG]

i have recently taken a like in long range shooting and currently shooting my .22-250 to 500 yard mark now at the moment. i am only paying close attention the amount of powder i use in my reloads and the cases overall length what other internal variables can affect how accurate i can shoot at these extended ranges? i use 36.5gr of aa2520 and a 50gr v-max bullet seated a col of 2.370inches also use cci br primers.

 

i am currently using a lee press with a set of rcbs comp dies but i seem to be getting inaccuraices when i come too seat the bullet so i have too unscrew the micrometer up alittle then press the case then screw it down alittle more then press and so on until i get my correct C.O.L. could someone shine some light on the problem there as i have a friend who can basically seat 20 bullets and all a the same length with no adjustment to the seating die.

 

many thanks

 

 

liam

[shrek]

regards your COL are you measuring the lenght from the base of the case to the tip of the bullet or to the ogive, as many bullets are not the same length,

 

It could also be your cases, have some been fired more often than others? (im bad for this) each firing and resizing hardens the case and so when seating a bullet into a case which has fired more than others it often has more resistance and tends to spring instead of open up to allow the bullet to slip in therefore not seating it to the same depth as the others.

What type of Lee press have you got, if its the smally one with the open front side it is more likly it, as they are only alloy they flex like buggery, i started off with one, wish i had just baught the redding big boss i now use in the first place!!

 

You could also try case prep, flash hole deburring, neck turning all depends how anal you want to get about it, i just uses 6BR lapua brass straight from the box with no case prep at all, but im just lazy!

[LiamG]

yeh some have been fired 7 times and the other batch has been fired twice and me bein da silly c**t i am ended up putting the 2 lots together. i have been measuring the total length of the case including the bullet inserted, i actually havent payed much attention to the case length itself i need to purcase a decent trimmer as the lee trimmer is not accurate enough. and the press i have been using is a lee breech lock press its not the open type. i am currently using a flash hole cleaner and flash hole uniforming tool .

 

could you explain how you measuring the case length other than the way i have stated above do you need to purchase a certain tool do it.

 

liam

[1967spud]

Hornady LNL OAL Gauge and Bullet Comparator document.observe("dom:loaded", function(){ var options = { overlayOpacity: 0, counterType: 'skip', displayNav: false, handleUnsupported: 'remove', keysClose: ['c', 'x', 27], // c or esc loadingImage: '/s/ajax/ajax-loader-shadowbox.gif', animate: true, animSequence: 'sync', resizeDuration: 1, text: {close:'

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View Product Images Hornady LNL OAL Gauge and Bullet Comparator Hornady LNL OAL Gauge and Bullet Comparator

Price: $52.00

Prod. Code: C1000

For max accuracy you need consistent bullet position relative to the start of the barrel's rifling. You can set this by trial and error, but it is much easier (and more repeatable) to use the Hornady O.A.L. Gauge to measure case length with the bullet ogive just touching the lands. When combined with a Bullet Comparator (with caliber-specific insert), you can also very quickly measure case base to ogive for any loaded round.

 

The Hornady system (formerly Stoney Point) consists of the O.A.L. Gauge, a red aluminum tube with a plastic internal pusher rod, and a "Modified Case", a 6mm BR case that has been bored and threaded at the base. This screws on to the end of the O.A.L. Gauge, and is sold separately by caliber. Though not essential, we also strongly recommend you get a Hornady Bullet Comparator. This Comparator attaches to the jaws of your calipers and lets you make readings off the bullet ogive.

When using the unit, you should take measurements from 3 or 4 different bullets (in each box), since there will be minor bullet to bullet variances. It also takes a little practice to get the right "feel" for putting the bullet in contact with the lands. We go for a fairly firm seat, sliding the bullet until we feel resistance, then tapping a couple times on the gray rod while holding the Red Gauge body firmly against the mouth of the chamber. That usually gives very consistent results, if you start with a clean bore. When repeatedly measuring with the same bullet, the OAL normally is within .001", 8 times out of 10.

 

We've also found it helps improve results if, prior to measuring, you insert the tool with the Modified Case attached until it fits flush with the outside of the chamber, then rotate it a bit clockwise and counter-clockwise. That tends to remove any fouling build up. Also every time you measure with the tool, make sure the Modified Case is screwed on tight. It can tend to unscrew a bit as you remove the tool from your rifle's chamber (see bottom photo). If the Modified Case is not fully seated on the O.A.L. Gauge, measurements will vary.

 

We've listed a "street price" of $53.00 which will cover a straight O.A.L. gauge, a modified case, a Bullet Comparator body, and a caliber insert. It's not a bad idea to buy the Bullet Comparator Basic Set (Item #B234-678, $26 at MidwayUSA). This lets you measure a variety of calibers (.223, .243, .264, .277, 7mm, and .308). Then, by adding a second Comparator body ($14) and second 6mm insert ($3.50), you can sort individual bullets by bearing surface length (ogive to bottom of max diameter). See how this works in the photo above. You can sort bullets very quickly this way. We have found, in many guns, sorting bullets by base to ogive improves accuracy more than by sorting by bullet-weight alone.

 

The next point is important--we recommend you keep a 36" piece of wood dowel in the bore. This helps seat the bullet more consistently and it lets you tap the bullet out easily if it sticks in the lands. Since firm contact with the lands produces the most repeatable measurements, you really need to have a long dowel handy. A cleaning rod will work in a pinch, but it is more likely to harm the delicate crown of your rifle. Stoney Point's "Tech Tips" confirms: "When using the OAL Gauge we have found the most accurate results come when using a wooden dowel inserted through the muzzle of the firearm. This allows you to 'sandwich' the bullet between the dowel and the bullet push-rod in the OAL Gauge. Then it's easy to jockey the bullet back and forth as you feel the 'stick-point' of the bullet on the rifling. Lock in this 'stick-point' for repeatable results." Just be sure you remove the dowel before you shoot the rifle!

 

 

Another benefit of the Stoney Point measuring system, if you keep good records, is that you can track throat erosion. Often you will find OAL to lands grows .003-006" very quickly in the first 100 rounds or so as burrs or chatter-marks polish out, but then it stabilizes. But regular use of the OAL gauge will let you "chase the lands" to keep bullet position constant relative to the entrance to the rifling.

 

Midway USA User Review: "This is indispensible for making top grade ammo. It is the best design for fitting your bullet into the throat of your gun safely and accurately. Just screw the case on, push a bullet in and push it all into the chamber until the bullet touches the lands. Lock the screw and pull it out. Then reset it up and measure with the comparator. It takes a few times to get a consistent and accurate method, but then it is perfect and repeatable." N. Padget, Delaware, OH

 

 

courtessy of www.6mmbr.com

[LiamG]

that looks alittle advanced for me could you explain it in more simple terms for me?

 

 

liam

[LiamG]

yeh well i know what you mean about the seating die it does take the piss, the micrometer adjuster has alot of play the only thing i like about it is the window on the fron for droppin the bullet head in, so i should try and purchase as decent case trimmer and prep kit for cases ?

 

liam

[JC275]

Liam, Spud is spot on with his post, I use exactly the same kit. That may all look complicated but it really isn't. I would get yourself the relevant measuring tools and try again before you spend out on new dies. I personally think that bullet seating depth is one of the most important variables in the accuracy equasion. What I still don't understand is why some factory ammunition shoots so well when the bullets are seated so far into the case to ensure that they chamber in all rifles? Having said that I also don't understand why people pick up dog poo in a bag then throw the bag back down on the floor! Maybe i'm just not that clever! JC

[LiamG]

i am using winchester brass at the moment. i might swap over to a better quality brass shortly i had a primer pocket erupt last night and had a serious job trying to extract the bullet i hope no damage has been caused, but i shall pay more attention in future . i shall have a look in too purchasing the suitable measuring tools , seating die and trimmer, ah to many outgoings and not enough ingoings!!

 

liam

[1967spud]

do you need more info on this?

[Vermincinerator]

Liam,

In my opinion the most critical factors for consistant long range accuracy are case capacity, charge weight and neck tension.

Quality brass will take care of the case capacity and to some degree the neck tension by ensuring consistant case wall thickness, although this can be controlled even better by neck turning.

Charge weight accuracy is very important for long range hits and therefore must be trickled carefully into the pan of a good quality balance scale which are more accurate then digital unless you have a set that measures to 1/100th of a grain (big money).

 

Ian.

 

PS. if the price of a Redding Comp seating die frightens you have a look at THESE, as good as the Redding and much better then the RCBS

[LiamG]

can someones point me in the right direction where too purchase theses tool and also im looking a decent cleaning rod patches and fluids etc to clean out my .22CF properly.

 

liam

[1967spud]

reloading supplies, norman clarke, tim hannam and a whole list of suppliers on the right hand side of this thread

[Vermincinerator]

Hi Liam,

Get you stuff from Sinclair International, even with the current exchange rate, tax, duty and shipping it still works out cheaper then buying here and its quick, order online, pay with your card and they ship same day.

I buy all my loading stuff from them, its just a shame that they stopped shipping bullets/cases out of the USA.

 

Ian.

[Alycidon]

Charge weight accuracy is very important for long range hits and therefore must be trickled carefully into the pan of a good quality balance scale which are more accurate then digital unless you have a set that measures to 1/100th of a grain (big money).

 

Funny you should say that, I have been thinking that my RCBS digital scale may not be so good after we got lower velocity spreads from thrown rounds than we did from weighed ones recently.

 

A

[skany]

Hi guys

 

on dies i have reloaded 223 243 22-250 308 all with lee dies !

 

when i had my 243Ai built i thought id go the whole hog & bought a redding comp set to be as anal as i could as it was a custom rifle!

 

but the redding dies dont seem to do nathing the lee ones dont do that i can see!

(unless u count the seating die putting a mark around the bullet a good thing!)

 

the 223 was a solid 1/2 rifle the 243 less then that the 22-250 would do sub 1/4 on a good day all with the lee dies!

 

the 243ai with the reddings will shoot in the ones on still day but i would have thought that was more down to its components then the dies!(has done a sub.1 3 shot group)

 

the 308 matches the 243ai all day long with lee dies & no grove in my bullets like on the ai

 

(this rifle has shot a sub .1 5shot group altho not by me! )

 

cheers Andy