varminter Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Went out with a good friend and my 22RF and 6PPC with 58 v-maxs for a spot of varminting yesterday , Popped a few bunnies with the 22 and then decided to have some long range fun with the 6ppc . Missed the first one at 376 but then had 2 bunnies at 306 and 310yds!! I then started to have a go at some bunnies between 350 - 400yds plus and missed 4 in a row The annoying thing was the shots was only just over their back!! I was just thinking to myself - " perhaps you are having one of those days " When a pigeon landed up in the field 328yds away , so dialed in drop and windage - bang - and a explosion of feathers!!!! The picture shows looking back from where i took the shot - the hedge under the pylon in the centre of picture... I noticed this fox sleeping under some gorse just over 300yds so got set up to take the shot , could only see the head so took the shot and missed just over the top again Well this fox ran out into the field and sat there looking around at 301yds - so crosshares on the shoulder and down it went........ This shot was taken on another farm and the ground is not so steep ( so it looks ) but i have found from those shots i need the same minus 3 clicks on elevation - so lesson learned again I finished the evening with a nice 457yds bunnie , so after what seemed like a bad session with my misses turned out great , and always good to be in the countryside too ;) All the best.............. RAY................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6mmBR Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 At least you have learned from your experience and as always important to finnish on a high note, a 457 bunny is awesome and getting closer to the magic 500yds Next time you'll nail em Cheers Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxshot Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Nice shooting Ray by the looks of things another 500 yard shooter coming up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varminter Posted July 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Thanks guys I did post some pictures so i shall try again.......... Pigeon at 328yds looking back to where i fired from - the shot was taken from the second field at the base of hedge level with the centre pylon in middle of picture.......... Fox - note the unusual white spots on coat....................... And the 457yds bunnie................... So still a very enjoyable day in the countryside........... Oh yes 6mmBR , i shall look forward to meeting you and seeing how that 22-250 ackley performs ;) All the best............. RAY................... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varminter Posted July 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Thats funny the pictures was not showing on my origonal post but now they are!!!!!!!! ;) All the best.......... RAY...................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6mmBR Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Bloody technology Ray, I think we better stick to shooting Cheers Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6ppc Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Some good long range shots there Ray for the ppc,as we all know sometimes we just get testing days like you had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest varmartin Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Nice shooting Ray, only an honest hunter talks about the ones he missed too--It can only be good for you and make you a better shot. I cant wait to get out myself again and nail a few with my Sako as well. I`m in the middle of pillar and Epoxy bedding the stock. So if I can get it apart again I will re-fit the trigger group and come shooting with you next time Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varminter Posted July 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Thankyou varmartin for that ;) Shall look forward to meeting up for another varmint session!!!! All the best............. RAY............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onehole Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Nice going Raymondo went out with Mrs onehole last night,we both missed and got a few long ones but put it down to wind most of the time.Now looking for a wind meter on E Bay and must pay more attention to perhaps this worst and annoying factor.I,ve had Millpool and Jamie ramming the black art of sammi specs down my neck today!and they ate my pasty and drank my coffee!!!!Small payment for a good afternoon though thanks Guys.cheers onehole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest varmartin Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 I think Silent should change his name to `Sammy Speck` I guess it has worked for a few guys though Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varminter Posted July 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Nice going Raymondo went out with Mrs onehole last night,we both missed and got a few long ones but put it down to wind most of the time.Now looking for a wind meter on E Bay and must pay more attention to perhaps this worst and annoying factor.I,ve had Millpool and Jamie ramming the black art of sammi specs down my neck today!and they ate my pasty and drank my coffee!!!!Small payment for a good afternoon though thanks Guys.cheers onehole. God to hear you had a good time And yes when taking on shots at long range , a wind meter is a must!!! I bought the speedtec and found it works great!!! ( thats when i do my bit)... We must meet up again for a shoot fellas All the best............ RAY.................. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentsoulsleave308holes Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 they dont invest millions and millions of $ in reloading spec and tests for saami spec factory chambered rifles cause they feel like it. there are lots of reasons for it working and why hey are sat at the lengths we are given and it has nothing to do with the old excuse about the magazine length, thats just a load of crap one minute of pressing a couple of buttons on te cnc and they could change the throating measurement and free bore to a shorter one and that would be job done but they dont cause it wont work cause the chambers on factory rifles are larger than custom and this has a relationship with why factory guns have a bigger jump to the rifling the bullet leaving a case chambered in a larger chamber than a custom utilizes the free bore, which is still a tight fit for the bullet, for stabilizing and centralizing the bullet before engaging rifle custom chambers have tighter dimensions and cut more concentric to the bore, therefore not needing the same amount of jump and so bullet is closer to the lands however........the bullet in a custom is normally sat in the case not far from saami if the you use the actual bullet the chamber was cut for and so almost the same pressures are achieved with the same loads because the custom with the right bullet will not have the large jump of a saami, when the bullet engages the lands part of the bullet is still in the case and so more uniformed pressure is achieved leading to better accuracy another however..... the industry have come up with a way factory saami spec rounds can duplicate this by using the pattented lee factory crimp ( yes the lee crimp is used by nearly all bullet manufacturers, thats why its called the lee FACTORY crimp) read lee website info on the crimp and why it works hope this helps explain to the brave dudes that have plucked up enough courage to try it in your saami spec chambers and are now shooting your guns better.......I am sure you will back this claim up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millpool Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 the proof of the pudding having spent a good deal of time on various lenghts of loaded bulets,on the lands,in the lands,2thou of the lands,!!!!!! silent and fox shooter suggested i try saami length ,well i did ,silent test fired my rifle with sammi length loads and shot a sub half inch group with 5 rnds!!! so thinking their may well be something in this ,loaded up sammi lenght for my ssg69(308) and went out for a blast with silent and wacked in a sub qtr min of ange at a 100 yds,convinced about sammi lenght ?? you bet your life i am!!!!!!!!!!!! tried the same thing in my 6.5x55 tikka m690 ,same result grouped like it had never done before, i dont need any more proof than that ,try it guys ,standard rifle / standard sammi length loads.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millpool Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Nice going Raymondo went out with Mrs onehole last night,we both missed and got a few long ones but put it down to wind most of the time.Now looking for a wind meter on E Bay and must pay more attention to perhaps this worst and annoying factor.I,ve had Millpool and Jamie ramming the black art of sammi specs down my neck today!and they ate my pasty and drank my coffee!!!!Small payment for a good afternoon though thanks Guys.cheers onehole. yes it was a really good day,very nice to see onehole and mrs onehole and the four legged onehole ,pasties were delicious cold ,but delicious!! the cappucino was delicious, also, sugar next time please!!!!!! come on onehole ,come over to the "dark side" of reloading ,you no you cant resist much longer!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charly hunter Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 Ray it would be nice to go out with you fellas but the problem is I have no transport at the mo and since my truck has been off the road I have not seen anyone Martin you may pooh! pooh! sammi spec my friend but as Millpool said the proof is in the pudding and my .243 is doing the job now I have gone to sammi spec, and as you know I tried everything you guys sugested before hand. ANd this is not a one off as I went out to check the zero last week and it did the same twice. The first shot through a clean barrel is high but after that it to good to play about with. Many thanks to Jamie for putting me right. Onehole check out Cabelas I have just got a wind meter from there at silly money, if you want one let me know and I can get it sent over so you don't have to pay the duty, not that it would be much on this item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varminter Posted July 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 Hi nigel just say the word and we have a fleet of trucks waiting to pick you up!!! :lol: :lol: Good to see you again buddy!!!!!!!!! All the best and hope that back feels better!!!!!!!!! RAY........................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 308Panther Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 So the jist of all that is.... Seat the bullet to spec ??? if doing so arent ya really replicating factory loads? 308Panther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 Silent, Great Theory mate but i am not convinced, however i am always willing to try something different and will give it a go, but i look at it like this. SAAMI Specifications and CIP for that matter are set tolerences for the manufacture of firearms and ammunition. These specs allow every bullet weight, in every calibre, from every maker, to feed and function in every rifle and every pistol from every manufacturer, which includes standard length mag boxes. The reason for long throats apart aiding in dropping pressure, is to allow cartridges with light and heavy bullets to feed and function in the same chamber, ie. .243 Win with 100grn bullet and the same with a 50rn bullet I can see this theory working in the smaller calibres where there is not much variation in bullet weight but IMO it falls down when calibres start getting bigger and the variation between light and heavy bullets increases. Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millpool Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 hi verminincinarator the ssg69 that i have is loaded with 168 grn a max ,its not a light bullet ,yet it is now giving a sub qtr min of angle,i know the ssg shoots well but i can only call it as i see it,but i see where you are coming from .good shooting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 Hi Millpool, The SAAMI Spec chamber in my 6mmBR Cooper is throated for the 105grn bullets utilized in factory ammo, i use 68grn Bergers because they have a long enough ogive to enable me to seat them out to touch the lands, and still have enough bullet shank in the case neck to give a good hold. 65grn V-max seated .133" away from the lands shoot fantastically, alas i cant say the same for 70grn SMK's, they spray all over the target like a shotgun pattern! Next time i am at the range i will try The SAAMI Spec depth for the 70grn SMK and see how it goes. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentsoulsleave308holes Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 most of my testing has been done with a 300 wm and I dont really see this as a small calibre?????? I have tried 178 amax, 190 smk, 200 smk,210 berger vld and 220 smk all seated at saami, 15 thou in, 5 thou in, touching,, 5thou off, 10 thou off, 15thou off, 20 thou off and furter away. have done many tests like this also including 243, 762/308 and all give the same result if you seat at saami (factory guns) they group slightly better than touching or in and anything in between gives poorer results my 762 always gives .25 moa (ask others)and has had three confirmed one shot kills over 800 yrds remember in between is worst so if you are seating out and want to try then bottle up the courage to seat ALL the way back to saami NOT in between I have been to rifle manufacturers and ammo manufactureres and asked the ins and outs of why my 762 is designed to shoot 155 palma, if I seat to touch the lands the bullet would not be in the case and measures oal 3.138 and saami spec ( which I seat to ) = 2.810 oal that means a jump of .328" thats a huge jump but she regularly shoots .25 moa but then what do I know??? I have only tested this theory about fourteen times over the last four years one recently with millpool out of my 300wm and 243( just the other day) tested other stuff like crimping effect on bullets in velocity, group size and vel variations the difference in loading in a room of 20-30% humidity to a room of 80-90% humidity, what effect this has on vel, group and deviation etc etc etc etc what effect cleaning barrels has on accuracy in factory rifles border barrels would testify to some remington barrels not shooting until 300-400 rounds david tubb can be found quoting that before he shoots a comp he seasons his barrels for 40-50 rounds and wont clean until 400-600 ish shots have tested the effect of a bronze brush being rubbed on a piece barrel grade stainless against a nylon brush nylon bushes in engineering are known to wear through steel very quick and not them selves be harmed saami length just be be brave and test properly, seating a little way back then giving up is for ******* and people with tunnel vision sorry, bad day at work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 Keep your shirt on mate Like i said in my post i will be testing your theory, i am always looking for an accuracy edge. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentsoulsleave308holes Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 what rifle do you have? sorry, in a better moooooood now just made myself a new bench for shooting and it came out ok'ish it suits my short fat aarrrrrse any hows will post pic in a little while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldon Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 What, a picture of your short fat arse???? no please. paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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