Reduced capacity cases.

[ajw]

Do reduced capacity cases exist??

 

I'm sure about 5 ish years ago I remember seeing an advert in a shooting magazine for these for sale in the UK. Can anyone shed any light on these please?

 

Thanks, Andy

[Guest Tiff]

I remember the same article, still got it in the loft somewhere...I think they were available through JMS arms. Best give Julian a call and I'm sure he will help out if he can.

 

I've thought about getting some made up for .308 out of solid brass turned on a lath. I'm sure it would be possible and an easy way to shoot subsonic loads with 'normal' powders.

[Ratwhiskers]

Andy.

 

You little sod, your brains gettin' furtive again.....

 

l seem to think some of it was designed as "zimmerstutzen" (sp?) where the case was of a standard size but the bore of the barrel and the case load was reduced so it could be shot as a training aid...

 

"Aw mum why can't l shoot the .50BMG in my bedroom"??!!

 

"Look Son, neck it down to .22R/F like all the good boys do then you can play with it in the dining room and you won't scare Granny"!!

 

Or..... Are you looking to produce a "Sub" type load without the problems of fillers or load density??

[Andrew]

I have made good subsonic speed loads for 308 using Alliant Unique powder. IF you find cast bullet data for your bullet weight using Unique, that will be your starting point with jacketed bullets. Drop a half grain at a time until you kiss 1000 fps. I'm told the newest Hodgdon's manual now lists subsonic loads for .223 and 308.

 

In any event, shy away from any kind of case fillers. I shoot a lot of cast bullets with reduced loads and once there was a popular practice of adding filers to the load. Too many competitors were suddenly finding ringed chambers and many attributed it to the fillers. Just an FYI.~Andrew

[MarinePMI]

The Trail Boss line of powder from Hogdgon may be an option as well (very bulky powder for its weight).

[varminter.223]

Hey Andy,

 

They do exist and are called some like Sumarian cases or something like that (memories fading!!)

 

I think he must have had hundreds of calls about them. He told me that they were designed as a humane kill cartridge (close range) but didnt have any for sale.

 

You might find this interesting

 

http://guns.connect.fi/gow/arcane1.html

 

Had a go at subs with the .223. The loudest sound was the hammer hitting the fireing pin. Problem was unless you load lead bullets you wont get expansion. My ballistic tips did a "bouncing bomb" impression down the range

 

Pete

[ajw]

Thanks for all the replies guys, some intresting reading. Thanks Pete for the link, and first time I've heard about the use as a humane killer cartridge - does make sence though.

 

Cheers, Andy

[ajw]

Pete, what was your chosen 223 subsonic load?

[varminter.223]

Pete, what was your chosen 223 subsonic load?

 

Hi Andy,

 

In the end plumbed for using Hodgdon CLAYS POWDER. You need a really fast burning powder so thatswhy I went for the CLAYS. There are others that can be used so if you check the powder burn chart for similar powder burn rates you wont go far wrong.

 

I used, if memory serves, about 5.5gns or 6gns of the clays and this gave me 1050fps if memory serves (it doesnt take alot!). This was just subsonic.The loudest noise was the hammer strike (with pes moddy on!)

Like I said I was using 69gn SMK's I think and these were bouncing down the range. You could pick em up and see that they were deformed. Ideally you would need to use 40's and reduce the charge to keep em subsonic. Having said that, make em sonic and keep the powder measure down? This way you can get the velocity (1500pfs ish) with less bang.

 

Thought about using air rifle pellets (.22) heads so you get the expansion. Chances are really short distances you could skip the powder and use a magnum primer and this might get the bullet to leave the barrel. Not sure if you can get .223 heads in lead and low weight

 

Hope this helps.

 

Pete

[MarinePMI]

I'm not disagreeing with people's reduced loads, but wanted to put out a caveat/warning reminder.

 

Be extremely careful with reduced loads that reduce the volume of powder below 80% case capacity! This is why you don't generally find published reduced load data for pistol/shotgun (cut flake) powders. There is always a chance that the powder will settle enough when the case is on it's side (in the chamber) that the primer will ignite the entire column of powder, versus igniting from the rear. This can (and HAS) caused catastrophic failure of both the case and the firearm (especially common in the .223)!

 

I'm not saying you shouldn"t do it; it is you decision after all, but you should be aware that there is a danger there, and to proceed carefully. This is why case fillers were often used in the past for reduced loads...to keep the powder up against the base of the cartridge. Now a days, most people just go buy a .22MWR or Hornet to get reduced velocity.

 

Be safe.