njc110381 Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Hey guys. I'm seriously considering chucking in my .17HMR and getting a Hornet. I really like the look and weight of the CZ American and would most likely get it cut to 18" or so and moderate it. What moderator do you think will be a good choice? I want it to be as small/light as possible and not add too much to the length of the gun. I considered putting a SAK on it to see how it works, but I get the feeling it wouldn't last too long even though it's said that they work! The ASE UTRA is rated for the Hornet, as is the Wildcat Cub2. Both are fairly small and light. Are there any makers I'm missing? I don't want a T4 or similar sealed unit, my personal opinion is that mods need to be cleanable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kip270 Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 What will the Hornet do that the .17hmr wont???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 The HMR is a great little round for Rabbits and birds. The trouble is I've been seeing quite a few Foxes on my permissions when I'm out with the HMR and haven't been able to take them. The Hornet will match the range of the HMR on bunnies and allow me a lot more on a Fox. If I'm completely honest I hit a runner a few weeks ago and it's been bugging me ever since. It was an easy shot and not too far away, and the whack made me sure I made contact. I've hit them at that range before and dropped them but this one didn't hang around. It started to run after the shot and although I'm pretty certain it didn't go far I couldn't find it. I have my .223 but it's a varmint barrel and it's heavy. I want to keep that for long range stuff and get something I can easily carry around on my more regular bunny trips. Another .223 would have too much power, but with a Hornet I can get 2500fps or so with a 35grn varmint bullet. Not that hard hitting, but more so than a HMR. I like to reload as a hobby too, and my bigger guns don't get out that often. I'd like to make more ammo for myself and I think this is a calibre I can really make use of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kip270 Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Good luck in your quest, there are so many calibre's too choose from nowadays, it can be a mindfield. Keep us updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucko Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 What will the Hornet do that the .17hmr wont???? With the difference in ballistics, I would expect quite a lot. .17 HMR 250 ftlb .22 Hornet 650 ftlb factory loads ( reloads 800-850 ftlb ) The .22 hornet shoots a heavier bullet with a better BC at a higher velocity. I recently shot a fox at 190yds ( side on chest shot ) with my Hornet and it dropped it on the spot. The size of the exit wound and the tissue damage surprised me. Plenty of energy left even at that range for consistent humane kills. The same cannot be said for the 17HMR. My hornet is a CZ 527 American with a T4AR mod and its a nice light gun to carry around, good for rabbit and fox and is fairly cheap to feed too. Cheers Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Go the whole hog and go 17AH or even 20AH. Flatter shooting and hit more than hard enough for old Charlie. Any small centerfire mod would do that OK, you pays your money etc but these light Titanium ones mentioned elsewhere here look interesting, A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I did consider a .17AH but it's a special build and I can't justify the cost at the moment. I'm going to try a standard Hornet for now and if I ever feel the need to go far a AH all I need to change is the barrel. I'm not going to be loading it faster, I have a .223 for that. I'm planning to load right down to base load. If I can get it to shoot with 30 grn bullets at HMR speeds (around 2500fps) it will only be running 400ft-lbs. Like I said before I just need a little more knockdown than a HMR offers. I don't intend it to be a long range mess maker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Cooper model 38 action is available in 17AH, Pheonix versions start at circa £1200 though. Maybe a rebarrel might be a better option. There was an Anchultz 15-- series on Guntrader recently. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 ...but with a Hornet I can get 2500fps or so with a 35grn varmint bullet. Not that hard hitting, but more so than a HMR. You need to set the bar a little higher with that Hornet. Hornady factory ammo delivers 3150 fps with the 35 grain V-Max. My loads run 3050 fps using the same bullet. My 33 grain V-Max loads have eclipsed 3250 fps using H-110. Winchester 46 grain HP's over 12.5 grains of Hodgdon's "Lil Gun" do 2860 from my CZ 527 American.~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Does the calibre not shoot well at lower velocities then? The loads are certainly out there (I'll be making them myself not shooting factory stuff). The Lee reloading book has several 35 grn loads that can be pushed at under 2500fps if you load to starting loads. One only pushes 2420fps at max, although this powder probably wouldn't be the best choice! Hornet rifling is a 1-16 twist. Isn't that the same as a .22lr? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 My mistake. I thought you were feeling limited to the 2500 fps mark. I misunderstood. I have shot hornet bullets of 45 grains and less in the 2000 fps range with complete satisfaction. Yes most Hornets have a 1-16" twist.~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I wasn't that clear was I! Sorry. I'm looking to keep the power nice and low. No point burning more than the minimum powder to shoot 100 yard bunnies. It's going to be quite messy even at that level! All I really want is something that meets HMR performance on small vermin, but will ensure that as long as I do my bit I can cleanly chest shoot a Fox at the same range. The HMR is great, but it doesn't reliably hit a Fox hard enough unless you're within 50 yards. I've shot all the stupid ones now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 More to the point, what mod would do a reasonable job without weighing the rifle down too much? I'm thinking of sticking a SAK on it to see how it goes (bear in mind I'll be shooting very mild loads not standard factory spec or hot loads)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveWard Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 More to the point, what mod would do a reasonable job without weighing the rifle down too much? I'm thinking of sticking a SAK on it to see how it goes (bear in mind I'll be shooting very mild loads not standard factory spec or hot loads)! Hi njc110381, You could certainly try the SAK it's not exactly going to break the bank, even if you do blow it up. I've been through a lot of mods on my hornet, all rimfire based ones and they all eventually failed to some degree either distorted or destroyed completely. I now use an Ase Utra Jet-Z CQB and it's much quieter and will never fail. It's rated for .223 full auto on very short barrels. Cheers Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 I was thinking a SAK would probably be a disposable option in the end. That said I can buy ten of them before it costs me what a Jet-Z would and I would also have a much lighter moderator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 njc, Please report back once you've tested a few mods on the hornet. When I asked about the 17 AH and moderators, the CQB was coming to the top of the list. There was another as well. But as you've noted, you can by a bunch of SAK's for one CQB. If the SAK works (even if only 100 shots) then it would be worth it. Also as a note, I went through the same thought process as you've laid out here. I wanted something to replace the HMR with just a little bit more oomph and reliability. So naturally I looked at the 17 centerfires and specifically the 17 AH. Most of the AH data is pushing the 20 gr pill at 3500+. I didn't want that, so I started asking about reduced loads and getting HMR velocities out of an AH. Yes it can be done but why would you was the common answer. I was looking for mild report (recoil is a non issue) and just assumed that higher speed was more noise. In thinking a little more though, I'll be hanging a moderator on the front so the powder boom will be negligible. The sonic crack will be essentially the same regardless. So why not push the velocity envelope up to where it should be? Now, I'm looking to get 3700 from my AH when I finally get the barrel here. That's the plan and it seems reasonable. Some guys are pushing the same 20 gr bullet to over 3900 in 24" barrels. Not a bad little gun for 200 yards rabbits. And, all of that with 10-12 gr of powder. That means 600-700 reloads from a pound of powder. Thanks, Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager SA Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Hey guys. I'm seriously considering chucking in my .17HMR and getting a Hornet. I really like the look and weight of the CZ American and would most likely get it cut to 18" or so and moderate it. What moderator do you think will be a good choice? I want it to be as small/light as possible and not add too much to the length of the gun. I considered putting a SAK on it to see how it works, but I get the feeling it wouldn't last too long even though it's said that they work! The ASE UTRA is rated for the Hornet, as is the Wildcat Cub2. Both are fairly small and light. Are there any makers I'm missing? I don't want a T4 or similar sealed unit, my personal opinion is that mods need to be cleanable! Have a look at the A-TEC CMM, better than the ASE and its modular so you can remove 3 of the 6 baffles for the Hornet, it can also be used on anything up to 6.5 cal. I know 2 guys that use them on the little Hornat and they are great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Have a look at the A-TEC CMM, better than the ASE and its modular so you can remove 3 of the 6 baffles for the Hornet, it can also be used on anything up to 6.5 cal. I know 2 guys that use them on the little Hornat and they are great. Ah, actually that was the one. The CMM, not the CQB. Thanks, Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 I'll be shooting Rabbits at under 120 yards 99% of the time. I don't need it to be running at full power. If I do put a SAK on it, surely the extra muzzle blast of running full power loads will burn out the internals much more quickly? The way I was looking at it, I don't need the power so why bother developing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch_egg Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 How about one of the PES muzzle cans, they look like they are well made and at £120 they are half the price of a cqb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 If you want a good powder for reduced loads in the 22 Hornet you might try Reloader-7. Around 10 grains should work great with a 40 grain bullet. I have used cast lead bullets at 2000 fps with this load.~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kip270 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 You may want to have a read of this http://www.huntingmag.com/guns_loads/22_hornet/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t12/AMM...15CROPPED-1.jpg Only the CZ's shoot! Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted January 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Thanks for the info and links. I'll look up RL7 and see if I can find some more info, it sounds like it could be the powder I'm looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidesy Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 hi, andrew banner (wildcat rifles) does a special mod specifically for the hornet called the CUB i think....i have a whisper on my HMR and its superb..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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