Redding competition shell holders

[foxyloxy]

Hi guys. Some advice needed please.

 

In the past 5 years or so I've been jumping from neck sizing to FL sizing to neck to FL with various calibers and rifles.

 

With this rifle I've been happily neck sizing my 6BR brass with a Wilson die & an Arbor press up to now but yes after about 3 firings i'm getting stiff bolt close on some brass. Who am I to argue with Erik Cortina so I'm up for bumping the shoulders back a few thou now with a Wilson FL bushing die & a set of Redding competition shell holders.

 

My understanding was that I start with the 10 thou shell holder then progress through the 8 thou and the 6 thou till I get the one that's "just right" for my chamber - am I correct?

 

My 4X fired brass is measuring 1.161 to 1.163 to the shoulder & Virgin Lapua brass measures around 1.157. It transpired that as soon I set up the die & using the 10 thou shell holder my newly resized brass is measuring 1.157. Off course closing the bolt feels sweet but is that too much of a shoulder set back? Am I creating a headspace issue?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

[onehole]

I reckon that most people that are "Full" FLS are probably bumping back about 10 thou with standard FLS equipment so I wouldn,t worry about the amount you are getting back to with your 1.157. I,m using the 8 and the 10 thou comp case hldrs in my PPC and 6BR,s to arrive at an appx 3 thou bump{Using Redding equip} which feels sweet. It,s all a mechancical relationship as you know and some peoples dies will react differently to others,,,some actually machine the bottom of dies to make things work,,,I understand why but won,t try to explain it here.....

I,m not familiar with the Wilson,s but if you wanted to size less than the say "5" thou average your doing at the moment then I guess you could shim something but I wouldn,t know what without studying them,,,sorry would love to help more but I think? 5 thou is an industry standard in headspacing so I would say no issues,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,O

[foxyloxy]

Thanks for that onehole.

[Catch-22]

I too am not familiar with Wilson FL dies, so I can't answer that part of your question.

However, I'd say you're not creating headspace issues because you're not undersizing brass beyond new factory brass spec. Instead you're just not sizing brass to that 'optimum' fit for your chamber. This minimum resizing for an optimum fit is desired for it usually translates into better accuracy.

But then I'd ask, "does it really matter?". If you're able to easily chamber your brass and you're happy with your group sizes,  and the consistency of the groups through multiple sizing cycles, then who cares?

 If however you feel your groups could//should be better, then bumping that shoulder to get 2-3 thou clearance for an 'optimism' fit *might* help. However, you could try looking at other aspects of your reloading or even shooting technique first to eek out more accuracy before then obsessing over shoulder bump. E.g. I'd really want to be annealing brass at 3x firings if you aren't already, as it seriously improves neck tension and sizing qualities, all essential for consistent shot to shot accuracy over multiple reloads.

Sorry for the slight waffle but hopefully it's helped in some way.

[Martin52]

On 25/10/2017 at 8:00 PM, foxyloxy said:

My understanding was that I start with the 10 thou shell holder then progress through the 8 thou and the 6 thou till I get the one that's "just right" for my chamber - am I correct?

My 4X fired brass is measuring 1.161 to 1.163 to the shoulder & Virgin Lapua brass measures around 1.157. It transpired that as soon I set up the die & using the 10 thou shell holder my newly resized brass is measuring 1.157. Off course closing the bolt feels sweet but is that too much of a shoulder set back? Am I creating a headspace issue?

To the question in the first paragraph, yes, that is correct.

Regarding the second, based on your measurements, your chamber is clearly allowing the case to expand from new by 0.006. Resizing back down to 1.157 is moving your brass back down by 0.006. You may find that resizing by only 0.002 to 1.161 will give you smooth bolt closure without over working the brass. Try this, but may have to go to 1.160.  Reset the die first by backing it out slightly, size a case, measure it then either adjust the die further or if you are close to the desired measurement use the comp. shellholders.

[foxyloxy]

Thanks again guys. Very much appreciated.

Yea Ill have a play with adjusting the die again although I cant seem to get my head round the fact that if steel is touching steel (i.e. the 10 thou shell holder & the bottom of the die) then that's the "longest" i am going to get my brass.

As for Annealing, yea i'm going to seriously have to look about an annealer. Do most people anneal before sizing the brass or do your sizing & then anneal?

[Catch-22]

You anneal the brass before sizing. It helps the brass to become softer and more malleable so that as you then size it, the brass has the 'spring' put back into it (aiding consistent neck tension). Without annealing, your brass will become brittle and your neck tension goes all out of whack. IMO I would say this is far far far more detrimental to accuracy than Over sizing brass. But the post above is quite right, pushing the shoulder back that much, when you don't need to, works the brass which again makes it brittle. But then again, this is something that annealing can help mitigate.

the goal - anneal and size your brass 'just enough' for smooth cycling.

[foxyloxy]

Perfect. Thanks again.

[GT3_richy]

5 hours ago, Catch-22 said:

You anneal the brass before sizing. It helps the brass to become softer and more malleable so that as you then size it, the brass has the 'spring' put back into it (aiding consistent neck tension). Without annealing, your brass will become brittle and your neck tension goes all out of whack. IMO I would say this is far far far more detrimental to accuracy than Over sizing brass. But the post above is quite right, pushing the shoulder back that much, when you don't need to, works the brass which again makes it brittle. But then again, this is something that annealing can help mitigate.

the goal - anneal and size your brass 'just enough' for smooth cycling.

Do you anneal every firing, Catch?

[Catch-22]

1 hour ago, GT3_richy said:

Do you anneal every firing, Catch?

I actually don't - but that's because I'm lazy. I don't have space to have he annealer setup permanently, and I simply can't be arsed to set it up each time. But if it was setup properly, then yeah I would anneal each time.

I anneal every 2 or 3 firings, generally in large batches of 200-300 cases each time.