legality help

[wise man]

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:05 pm Post subject: help on legality

 

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can anyone tell me the legality of purchasing bullet heads from the usa. i have heard various explanations please help!

[Ronin]

My understanding is this:

 

Non expanding (match) bullets you may purchase and have sent through the post - from the USA you will require a FFL licence and a letter from out DTI to say you can have them for personal import.

 

If not your supplier commits a Federal Offence (Jail)

 

 

Expanding bullets (sect 5), you need the same thing as match, but they would have to be shipped to a gunshop (RFD) where you then pick up and get them signed on your ticket.

 

This is as I understand it at this moment - you can get bullets from Europe shipped direct, but if its sect 5, they still need to go to RFD.

 

 

FFL paperwork can be completed by third party exporter in the US (usually costs about £70), I have brought parts in like actions (for myself) and found the process relatively pain free (the longest delay being UK Customs)

 

Not 100% sure but I would have thought that the cost of shipping (weight) would make the matter just as expensive as buying in the UK - unless you are after something you cannot get here.

 

Ive also bought specialised bullets from people in Germany and Canada without the smae restrictions - suppose it depends on what you are searching for....

[Alycidon]

Ronin is correct.

 

However the interpretation of the US law does vary from state to state, I recently imported some barrel blanks with no paperwork issues at all, manufacturer said unchambered did not need any paperwork even after I had twice told him I thought they did. I suspect they would be hotter on bullets though.

 

A

[Redfox]

The Home Office has made it clear there is no requirement to put numbers purchased of expanding missiles on your FAC, the only requirement is to have the permission to purchase and hold on it at the time of issue.

The majority of Forces take the view that you should stay within your total allocation for a specific calibre as to the number of rounds and expanding missiles eg, say 250 total made up of 50 rounds and 200 missiles but there is nothing in law saying that, its one of those "conditions" that is applied by some Forces. But recording on certificate is not required as they are not complete "rounds" of ammunition.

Redfox

[griffshrek]

i was as confused as the rest of you ,with no one giving a definite answer. i rang my firearms dept i told them i was not a RFD and i would know if i would be breaching my FAC if bought expanding bullet heads in from USA , they had no issue as long as it was heads only no loaded ammo (they checked i was allowed to have expanding on FAC) . they said i was to put on my FAC once loaded into full ammo, and i was not allowed to sell or send through post the ammo or heads, but ok to recieve from USA .

 

i checked with the DTI who were only concerned that it was not loaded ammo and heads only , also i was not buying from a prohibited country (USA ok) and thats was it . bought ammo (i wanted not what's available) ,saved a packet .pain free for me.......neil

[Ronin]

Griff

 

 

you were lucky, without FFL export licence the sender (and reciever) commit FEDERAL offence - as ive said earlier this means Jail in the US if youre caught.

 

 

Not worth the worry without proper paperwork if you ask me

[nuttyspaniel]

I answered a post like this on another site and if you contact BASC I think youll be surprised. I know of 1 incident when BASC were approached regards bringing expanding heads into the country from the states they replied your not breaking the law and would put pen to paper to support this. As for heads plus bullets towards total amount held we are not allowed to exceed our maximum when both are added together. Ill try and dig out that piece of law regarding that matter.

[nuttyspaniel]

From another site!!

 

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:12 am Post subject: some legal issues

 

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http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/publicatio...ms-Guidance.pdf

 

This link shows the homeoffice guidance to police about firearms. There aare a couple of interesting anomolies that are worthy of note.

 

among the list of prohibitted weapons.

 

xiv)any ammunition which incorporates a

missile designed or adapted to expand

on impact (section 5(1A)(f))

 

by way of explanation (from the home office):

 

3.16 Category (xiv) refers to ammunition

incorporating a projectile that is designed or

adapted to expand in a controlled manner.

It is the kind of ammunition used in

deerstalking and vermin control because it is

more likely than non-expanding ammunition

to ensure a quick, clean kill. Semi-jacketed

soft point and hollow point are typical forms

of expanding ammunition, but care must be

taken to distinguish between match target

hollow point ammunition, which has a tiny

hole at the front for manufacturing purposes,

and true hollow point. Match hollow point

rounds, such as the Sierra Match King, are

not prohibited, neither are flat-nosed bullets

designed to be used in tubular magazines.

This is to prevent magazine explosions

caused by a pointed bullet resting on the

primer of the cartridge ahead of it. All bullets

will distort on impact, but only those which

were designed or adapted to do so in a

predictable manner fit this category.

 

 

ok so that means our bullets.

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3.17 Category (xv) extends the prohibition

on the various types of prohibited

ammunition to the actual bullet or missile

itself, not just the complete round of

ammunition (a complete round consists of

the bullet, the cartridge case, the propellant

and the primer). Certain categories of shooter

such as deerstalkers and vermin controllers

are exempt from the requirement to obtain

the authority of the Secretary of State to

possess expanding ammunition (see Chapter

4) and will have the appropriate condition

entered on their certificate (see Appendix 3).

There is no need for the bullets to be listed

separately on the certificate, other than in the

circumstances described below. However,

where a certificate holder requests large

quantities of bullets, it should be remembered

that the total number of bullets authorisedcounts towards their overall limit on

possession of expanding ammunition. The

exception to the rule on listing bullets

separately on a certificate applies in the case

of a certificate holder who wishes to possess

a variety of different types of bullets. This

may be reflected in a relatively higher

overall limit on possession and, in these

circumstances, the bullets may be listed

separately to help avoid unnecessary

stockpiling of complete rounds. It is not

necessary for the dealer making the sale to

record transactions of expanding bullets on

the certificate but the sale should be recorded

in the dealer’s register.

 

This bit means that bullets don't have to be put on your ticket, but they will count against your entitlement.

................................................................................

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Chapter 4 talks about expanding ammunition. It says we can have it for deer shooting or pest control and for zeroing and practise over ranges and over land in Connection with stalking.

................................................................................

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this paragraph gives guidance on quantity of ammunition.

 

4.8 The bulk purchase of ammunition for

the purpose of economy is not acceptable as

good reason for possession. Possession of

250 rounds with authority to acquire 200

rounds should generally be regarded as

reasonable (but see paragraphs 4.7 and 13.2.

 

the following exert is about open tickets and it acknowledges that a deer stalker might not have any land of thier own. It also talks about the "particular skill" I have to agree with this.

 

13.30 An applicant who wishes to shoot deer

should name land which has the likelihood of

the appropriate deer species being present,

and an invitation, booking or authority to

shoot. Many deer stalkers will rely on

invitations to shoot on payment rather than

be hired or paid to do so and may not be

able to shoot regularly or frequently, though

others may be permanently employed, for

example Forestry Commission staff. Hunting

large animals with powerful rifles requires

particular skill, and applicants should generally

have experience of firearms.

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There follows a table which shows what calibres are recomended for what use. Whilst this is guidnce it does not mean this is prescripive. Ie if you want one centrefire rifle and you want to shoot fox and red deer with it and you can explain this and show in a letter your need for one not two rifles then the licencing officer MAY grant out of step with the procedure.

 

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Import of ammunition,

 

this exert looks at import of ammunition from non EU countries. Note this includes america. You will see that expanding missiles is not counted in the legislation.

 

Imports from non-EU nations

28.20 The following items are subject to DTI

import licensing requirements if consigned

from outside of the EU or from the Channel

Islands:

i) lethal firearms, including any lethal

barrelled weapon of any description from

which any shot, bullet or other missile

can be discharged and other weapons of

whatever description designed or adapted

for the discharge of any noxious liquid,

gas or other thing;

ii) component parts (other than wooden gun

stocks) of any such firearms or other

weapons and any accessory to any such

firearm or other weapon designed or

adapted to diminish the noise or flash

caused by firing the weapon;

iii) ammunition including grenades, bombs,

and other like missiles, and any

ammunition containing or designed or

adapted to contain any noxious liquid,

gas or other thing.

 

28.22 Normally, no import licence is required

to import the following but from time to

time such goods may be subject to licensing

control:

i) cartridges for smooth-bore guns

containing five or more shot, none of

which exceeds 0.36 inch (9 mm) in

diameter;

ii) blank cartridges not exceeding one inch

(25.4 mm) in diameter;

iii) air weapons or weapons powered by

compressed carbon dioxide not declared

to be “specially dangerous” under the

Firearms (Dangerous Air Weapons)

Rules 1969;

iv) ammunition for air guns, air rifles or

air pistols;

v) articles more than one hundred years old;

vi) any item not classified to Chapter 93 of

the HM Customs and Excise Integrated

Tariff including vehicles, ships and

aircraft incorporating a firearm;

vii) any component of ammunition.

 

Note point Vii

 

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As I said in my last post BASC have been contacted and it is legal to import! Contact then yourselves.

[Ronin]

Nutty

 

it may not be legal to import here, but you need FFL export licence over there to export out the USA.

 

Without that licence, the sender and I think the reciever commit an offence. (in US law)

 

That was the point I was trying to make.

[nuttyspaniel]

I missed that Ronin.

[wise man]

I missed that Ronin.

hi nutty are you in the big belt or the we belt of airdrie

me the masiff belt

[swampy]

john is right,

I did a great load of work on this for another site and the definitive answer as far as us the consumer is concerned is you can do it, they count towards your total.

 

checkout

 

www.cliffsgunsmithing.com

 

i use him a lot. he will mix up your order into different bags to get the postage down. the rule of thumb is under 4il is £5 postage, so thats maybe a box of 100 30cal and 100 .223 together. and they come to your door and you get what you really want, not what the rfd has had on his shelves for a lifetime.

 

swampy

[wise man]

john is right,

I did a great load of work on this for another site and the definitive answer as far as us the consumer is concerned is you can do it, they count towards your total.

 

checkout

 

www.cliffsgunsmithing.com

 

i use him a lot. he will mix up your order into different bags to get the postage down. the rule of thumb is under 4il is £5 postage, so thats maybe a box of 100 30cal and 100 .223 together. and they come to your door and you get what you really want, not what the rfd has had on his shelves for a lifetime.

 

swampy

Hi Swampy. Thanks for that mate . I will give a e-mail and lett you know how i get on thanks.

[325WSM]

Griff

 

 

you were lucky, without FFL export licence the sender (and reciever) commit FEDERAL offence - as ive said earlier this means Jail in the US if youre caught.

 

 

Not worth the worry without proper paperwork if you ask me

 

I buy from the US and as far as I am concerned do so legaly at both ends. I understand no offence is commitrted in sending to the Uk as there is no law in place at this end that makes it illegal that the US will use to say an offence has been committed in the US. That is the criteria used by the US law.

 

The law here says expanding bullets must not be posted - it does not say must not be received in the post.

It is not illegal to post expanding bullets in the US.