Accurate (Western) and ADI Powders

[BlueBoy69]

Hi,

 

Does anyone know if any shops stock Accurate (Western) Powders and ADI propellants?

 

I'm after Accurate's 5744 and 1680, in addtion to ADI's Bench Mark 8208 (aka the rebranded IMR XBR 8208).

 

Neil

[Laurie]

Accurate powders are not available in the UK. They used to be back when Explosia in the Czech Republic supplied them, but when the Accurate Arms co, was bought out by Western the new owners changed suppliers.

 

With a bit of hunting, the 'old' versions are still available as Lovex SO.... (single-based extruded) or Lovex DO.... (double-based, mostly ball types). For instance, the 'old' Accurate 2520 was Lovex DO73.6. Western Powders Inc is concerned enough about the confusion to have a warning page on its website saying that any European procured powder is not bona fide Accurate and Accurate's loads data shouldn't be used. Since Western has sourced powders to have the same characteristics as the old Czech versions, there isn't a lot of difference between the 'old' and 'new' maximum charges though.

 

If you Google Explosia and/or Lovex Powders you'll find the website with a downloadable loading guide.

 

Yes, we have ADI powders all over the UK - they're called Hodgdon! All extruded single-based Hodgdon powders + IMR-8208XBR are renamed ADI grades.

 

You'll find the conversion chart here

 

http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloaders/equivalents.asp

 

If you are asking, are they also available with ADI labels to get around Hodgdon shortages, the answer to that is 'No!'. Apart from anything else, Hodgdon Powder Company has done all the EC regulatory compliance work and it would be illegal to import them as ADI products without going through all the hoops again.

[BlueBoy69]

Thanks for your reply Laurie, but I was just after those two brands and if anyone sells them in the UK as those brands.

 

It does seems rather strange that the Ramshot line is available in the UK, but not Accurate, as both are owned by the parent company Western Powders Inc?

 

I've used LOVEX already powders already and have the manuals from 2011-2015 (not 2014, there wasn't one). And yes, though some are supposed to equate to Accurate ones, they are not in fact the same. Supposedly D060 is Accurate 5744, well if compare both in QuickLOAD anyway? They certainly look the same.

 

I think it's another weird thing about the UK shooting industry that they import powders from the US, which are in fact produced in other countries, especially Australia and Europe. Surely it would be cheaper to source the powder from the horse mouth as to say and not include multiple additional costs due to using a rather convoluted supply chain? That's of course if in fact, they do go the the US first and then are shipped back. I guess they could come direct, just with rebranded stickers. Who knows what the importers get up to?

 

Ah, good old conversion charts. Sort of useful for a ballpark guestimate of burning rate, but useless in the long run due to the different powders' density, calorific value and burning rate nature (progressive, neutral or regressive) characteristics.

 

PS I have an extensive reloading library, manuals going back to the 1990s which includes: Accurate Powder, ADI, Alliant, Barnes, Berger, Haendler & Natermann, Hodgdon, Hornady, IMR, Lee, LOVEX, Lyman, Norma, Ramshot, Ranch Dog, Reload Swiss, Sierra, Speer, VECTAN, Vihtavuori, Western Powders and Winchester. I'll send you a list if you want it?

 

PS PS I work for Jane's as their Senior Weapons Technical Analyst and worked as a contractor to the MOD doing instrumentation, radiography and high-speed photography on weapon trials, so I'm au fait with most things ballistic

[Laurie]

I'm pretty sure that sheer volume drives the via US distribution channel situation - the US market dwarves the rest of the world so Hodgdon has buying power nobody else has. Bear in mind too, it's not just the handloading market - Hodgdon Powder is the largest supplier of propellants to the American sporting rifle ammunition manufacturers so Remington, Hornady etc are also competing for supplies of Hodgdon and IMR powders.

 

Hodgdon makes all introductions available to Europe taking them through the testing and certification processes. Some others don't, restricting new products to the primary markets - Alliant ATK and AR-Comp for instance never licensed for us. If someone wished to bid for ADI powders as a direct buyer and importer, they'd have to take a huge task on which Hodgdon does currently. I'd be pretty sure too that Hodgdon has an exclusive supply clause in its contract with Thales / ADI for all markets other than Australasia.

 

Westlander Ltd with Explosia powders back in their Accurate Arms days and Henry Krank now with Ramshot are able to do this by direct imports from the European located factory gates presumably only because Accurate back then and Western Powders now have no desire to enter the UK market (or European market under the US brand names). I'd also assume that Western obtains some sort of licence fee from our people as the products retain the Western branding and product names and Krank supplies Western Powder researched and created loads data.

 

I didn't supply a very good link for ADI-Hodgdon conversion as the table doubles as a comparative burning rate chart. The conversions are as follows:

 

AR2205 = H4227

AR2207 = H4198

AR2219 = H322

Bench Mark 2 = H. BenchMark

Bench Mark 8208 = IMR-8208 XBR

AR2206 - no Hodgdon product

AR2206H = H4895

AR2208 = H. VarGet

AR2209 = H4350

AR2213SC = H4831

AR2217 = H1000

AR2225 = H. Retumbo

AR2218 = H50BMG

 

These are not 'equivalents', rather identical products sold under two sets of names and branding. As Michael Caine might have said but never has so far as I know - it provides a second comprehensive set of loads data (Thales / ADI) to be mined if you have the conversions ..... but not many people know that!

 

I'm 100% in agreement on relative burning rate charts, a quite different animal. If you look through my posts on propellants on UKV, you'll see I've worn my two typing fingers out telling people that (1) they're misleading as relative burning rates change both between cartridges / loads and also between chart compilers, and (2) that burning rate is a single characteristic out of several including those you mention.