Annealing, case trimming and seating depth?

[527vamint]

OK,I have been loading for 223,308,38sp and 357 mag for around 4 years I have shot around 3000 rounds of my Homeloads .

I have some questions?.

I full length size everything and get the brass as clean as I can using a tumbler and a pea size squirt of autosol.

My 223 brass ppu was shot 6 firings,hornady 4 times and I'm on my 6th firings with my Lapua brass for the 308. All my brass is still in sami spec sizes +- a couple of tho,how important is it to trim to length. Annealing as I understand when you warm the neck upto a certain temperature the brass reverts back to its original state,causing the neck tension to be back to original state?,I have never done. Seating depth I have always kept to sami spec lengths to keep everything on an even field. Am I missing out on accuracy due to not annealing trimming to lentgh and seating closer to the rifling. I'm asking as I am wanting to tighten my groups and increase my scores in comps. I'm shooting with a 527 kevlar cz 223 /9",howa 1500 varmint 308 1/10". I know they are run of the mill but they are what I have. Ps my p14 308 1/14" and open sights is doing great of my elbows with nato amo so I think I can shoot,my loading my need some tweeks. And advice welcome.

Cheers Andy

[gunner]

Hi varmy , if it were me shooting in comps id do all of that . In fact im a varminter and i do it all any way , consistentsey equals accuracy . I thought all the target / comp boys were the most anal of all in there case prep ! I would anneal your brass mate and trim to length , but the other big thing is if your loading your rounds to sammi spec - ie not to your chambers COL , you could be loosing accuracy that way . Unless you have worked out your touching the lands +/- thousands for best groups ? With your chosen bullet of course . Atb

[gbal]

Andy, annealing used brass will restore much of it's original elasticity/properties,but done poorly-incorrect temperature or wrong part of the case etc will do terminal damage...at least initially,best to get them done by someone offering this service -it's not expensive,and will prolong the useable life of the brass.It's more attractive with high power competition pressure brass,and may/not offer much savings on smaller stuff.

Trim to length will become an essential-as cases are firesd they stretch a little,and eventually will excedd the safe SAAMI spec for that cartridge (manuals will give the min/max COAL)-then they need trimmed.Again,when is a matter of firing pressures etc-just keep a check and trim when max is reached.

 

Other than the above,and magazine fit,COAL is a very basic measure.Some tuning of your loaded rounds to your rifle will reduce groups a bit-not as much usually as having an optimum (node) powder load,but can then tighten a bit more-not possible of course for factory ammo users.You will need a proper set of seating depth tools-the Hornady/sinclair one is OK (£20?) and a good micrometer.You have to get your own measures-rifles-even same make differ enough-then when you have the 'loaded round' just touching lands,you can seat it slighty deeper progressively (maybe 5 thou a time) til you get optimum seating depth-for that bullet.Within the same box,even good make bullets can/do vary by enough thou to make COAL very variable,hence the use of a seating depth guage to use the bearing surface-ogive- as the measure datum,as this is much more uniform.It will vary as bullet makes/weights/ogives vary.

It's worth doing,though bear iin mind all rifles have an intrinsic precision limit,and can't be improved beyond that,but 1/2 moa would not be an unreasonable 3 shot expectation for a factory rifle,and might well be a bit better.

If you want to go this route,read Bryan Litz of Berger Bullets on COAL versus CTOL (cartridge to ogive length)-or just measure some bullets and note the length variation to see that is not very consistent-and consistent ammo means consistent performance.

It all helps,but see it in context of the rifle and useage-ultrafine tuning is not needed for medium targets at 150yards,and no amount of fine tuning will make any rifle a laser- at 400 yards if there is any wind,that is misread.No-one can read wind to .2 moa consistently on target (2moa is closer to average for first shot).

But every (little) helps...and it's no more difficult to load to optimum than coal,once the measures are done.

Good shooting.

gbal

[527vamint]

Cheers guys, As you can guess I'm a relative novice to the technical side of loading. Basically I'm shooting club competitions 100m and 300m. I'm not shooting against olyimpions or anything. I'm going to need to invest in a case length trimmer, I'm a bit unsure what will suit my needs best,hence I haven't got round to buying one.I'm going to be trimming 223,6mmppc,308,38sp and 357mag. Any suggestions?. Regarding the coal I will hindered by the mag length. I have aquired an hornady overall length gauge and a comperitor set,I will have another go at measuring. My last rough measurements led me to belive I couldn't get anywhere near the lands. Thanks for taking the time to reply Andy

[gbal]

Andy,if you are careful-or rich- get a copy of the sinclair catalog,as it has a pretty fair selection of most reloading tools-not every make,but 'loaded' towards the precision market- sometimes you need to resist,and do some research-as you suggest-and take much 'advice' with a pinch of salt(petre)-very good dies will nearly always make a bit better ammo-but not at all directly with price-as most stuff,quality helps,but gains are diminishing-though essential for the 'olympians'! Better a Berger (eg) bullet than a slight upgrade -if any-with an expensive powder dispenser....trickle in free for consistency-that matters (sub .1 gr don't-even were it atainable-who cuts kernels!!)

Trimers are made by Lyman,and the better options are Wilson ,Forster,Redding at increasing prices-need to check on the collets etc as they vary the prices a tad;Wilson and Forster do pistol cases too-not so sure of others. (£45 basic Wilson,£65 basic Forster £70,Redding £90-on up...)

OK-COAL is a magazine max,but you may be able to single load-if seating is better-for some competitions-the 6ppc of your three will probably respond best to some TLC in reloading and loading,and should be considerably the most precise to 300y. There is of course often intrinsic pleasure in using good tools,and some convenience too-and aa big psychological factor-you've done the best reasonable money can get....now for the hard bits! Enjoy.

g