.204 Ruger - Communal wisdom please

[Andrew]

thats why i went 20tac and 40vmax, seems theres alot of them about.....

Smart man.

I had an interesting discussion with some buddies on the merits of the 40 grain VM V/S the 32 grain on prairidogs. The BC is so much higher with the 40 grain that amost any velocity gain is negated (very little drop difference at 300 yards with identical zeros) and drift is about 1/3 less than the 32 grainers. I'm sold on them.~Andrew

[Tony.H]

Smart man.

I had an interesting discussion with some buddies on the merits of the 40 grain VM V/S the 32 grain on prairidogs. The BC is so much higher with the 40 grain that amost any velocity gain is negated (very little drop difference at 300 yards with identical zeros) and drift is about 1/3 less than the 32 grainers. I'm sold on them.~Andrew

The BC on the 40gr that are published by hornady are higher than they really are, some of the lads over here have put them through there paces and come up with something more realistic, cira.240 and i think thats what berger are saying there BC is on there 40gr .20cal offering, and i am more inclinded to belive berger than hornady......My 40grs are doing 3600fps and the 32 3900fps.. when put in a ballistic calculator the 32 comes out better, thats if your using .240BC for the 40gr, the 40gr imo needs to be leaving the barrel at, at least 3750fps to make use of the supposed higher BC....

 

Tony

[Tree]

I've just got my 204 that i ordered ten months ago,delayed due to one of several cock ups by Edgar Bros. When i ordered it i checked with my local Bushwear who stocked two different types of factory loads to ensure availability for this new gun. Now it's here Bushwear can no longer get ANY 204 loads,and so now i'm stuck with no 'local' supply of ammunition....not ideal... Everyone is being very helpful and apologetic but can offer no clues as to when any ammunition may,or may not,be in. Am now considering more expenditure by starting to re load. I'm in central Scotland,hope this helps anyone.

[Andrew]

The BC on the 40gr that are published by hornady are higher than they really are, some of the lads over here have put them through there paces and come up with something more realistic, cira.240 and i think thats what berger are saying there BC is on there 40gr .20cal offering, and i am more inclinded to belive berger than hornady......My 40grs are doing 3600fps and the 32 3900fps.. when put in a ballistic calculator the 32 comes out better, thats if your using .240BC for the 40gr, the 40gr imo needs to be leaving the barrel at, at least 3750fps to make use of the supposed higher BC....

 

Tony

 

Sorry I missed this .

Why, pray tell, would you believe Berger more than Hornady? Both make their living selling bullets.

I believe they are both right.

 

The V-Max has a balllistic tip has an expressed purpose of increasing BC without adding significant weight. The Berger has an open HP and is listed at a BC of .225. I think the Hornady bullet is capable of having a higher BC than the Berger just by comparing the two side by side. If they were shot side by side, on the same day, at the same velocities (+/- normal variances) and sharing environmental conditions, the Hornady would deliver a higher BC. I can't 100% guarantee it sitting here at my desk, but in my experience of doing actual BC calculations at the range with multiple chronographs, with different bullet styles, that ballistic tip will win out over the shorter HP.

 

As it stands, we have no idea how fast the respective bullets were driven (actually, or by computer model) to derive the published BC's. They were certainly done with different parameters. For the sake of argument it really doesn't matter. If you pick the published BC of the 32VM and the published data of the 40 grain VM the 40 grain wins with regard to drift at the speeds you mentioned. Using Berger's calculator, their 35 grain HP (.176) and their 40 grain (.225) show the 35 grain having a noticable reduction in drift while at 400 yards giving away only 2.5" of trajectory.

 

In other words, there is no way you can make any 32 grain 20 caliber (or 35 grain) 'come out better' over a 40 grain 20 caliber even when they are launched at 3600 fps and 3900 fps. (a <8% difference in velocity with a 22% increase in BC using the Berger bullets published BC's as an example) The drop difference won't be significant enough to worry about on prairiedogs, let alone fox or rabbit. Especially when the wind gods are out.

 

While an inexact reference, my shooting of at prairiedogs out to 400+ yards shows my rough drop calculations based on Hornady's .275 BC to be pretty darned close. Wind drift is certainly less than the faster 32 grain V-Max.

All JMHO, of course.~Andrew

[Tony.H]

 

Sorry I missed this .

Why, pray tell, would you believe Berger more than Hornady? Both make their living selling bullets.

I believe they are both right.

 

The V-Max has a balllistic tip has an expressed purpose of increasing BC without adding significant weight. The Berger has an open HP and is listed at a BC of .225. I think the Hornady bullet is capable of having a higher BC than the Berger just by comparing the two side by side. If they were shot side by side, on the same day, at the same velocities (+/- normal variances) and sharing environmental conditions, the Hornady would deliver a higher BC. I can't 100% guarantee it sitting here at my desk, but in my experience of doing actual BC calculations at the range with multiple chronographs, with different bullet styles, that ballistic tip will win out over the shorter HP.

 

As it stands, we have no idea how fast the respective bullets were driven (actually, or by computer model) to derive the published BC's. They were certainly done with different parameters. For the sake of argument it really doesn't matter. If you pick the published BC of the 32VM and the published data of the 40 grain VM the 40 grain wins with regard to drift at the speeds you mentioned. Using Berger's calculator, their 35 grain HP (.176) and their 40 grain (.225) show the 35 grain having a noticable reduction in drift while at 400 yards giving away only 2.5" of trajectory.

 

In other words, there is no way you can make any 32 grain 20 caliber (or 35 grain) 'come out better' over a 40 grain 20 caliber even when they are launched at 3600 fps and 3900 fps. (a <8% difference in velocity with a 22% increase in BC using the Berger bullets published BC's as an example) The drop difference won't be significant enough to worry about on prairiedogs, let alone fox or rabbit. Especially when the wind gods are out.

 

While an inexact reference, my shooting of at prairiedogs out to 400+ yards shows my rough drop calculations based on Hornady's .275 BC to be pretty darned close. Wind drift is certainly less than the faster 32 grain V-Max.

All JMHO, of course.~Andrew

Well with all things being relative, i shoot out to 250yards max, i shoot foxes at night, so 40gr vmax with a bc of .24, of which i belive to be more correct than whats stated by hornady, and is what a shooter over here has found, in real world conditions and at a higher mv than what i shoot my 40grs at, the bc of a bullet drops the slower it is pushed, is that correct?.............so @3600fps 40gr vmax with bc of .240 at 300yards what is the drop?

@3900fps 32gr vmax with bc of .210 at 300yards what is the drop?

i am not intersted in the wind drift as such, as i am shooting fox, at night, if the wind is that bad then id not bother going out or just call the fox in closer.....

and yes i do belive berger to be more honest about there bc on there bullets....

i am only using isnipe as a ballistic calculator, so rubbish in rubbish out, i could of done this wrong, so any help with my data, many thanks

 

Tony

[Alycidon]

Learn how to reload, then use 39gr SBKs, these perform better than 40gr Vmax in almost all 20s, very disruptive on crows and similar at sub 80 yards !!.

 

I have taken foxes clean as a whistle to just over 300 yards with them.

 

The issue with factory ammo is one of demand, look at it from the local gunshops point of view. If he gets asked for 30 a year and has to buy a minimum of 200 then whats he going to do. Chicken and egg really, hence I suggest the reload route as there are a lot more 20s out there and one bullet does fit all so easier to source, 100 cases will last the life of the barrel as long as you dont load them very hot.

 

It does not really do much that 223 does not sub 250 yards. Shade less drop and drift once you get way out there.

 

A

[Raifuru]

I have found I can get far greater velocity from my 20 TAC than QL or standard RL data would suggest. With my original 1-12 PAC Nor I could push a 40 grainer above 3900 fps using Todd Kindlers reloading data. I now have the gun with a Lija 1-9 that absolutely performs amazingly well with 50s (no longer available) and 55s. I have not chrono'd these yet, but using QL would suggest around 3400 at the highest load I have tested so far. .

I am not sure that you would actually notice any difference in the field with this, but on paper it looks good.

If you like slightly quirky then 20s are great, but I still think the 223 is a hell of a hard cartrige to beat for diversity and availabiltiy.

[gbal]

The posts seem to say it all: if you like paper figures,20 /223s have an (velocity) edge sometimes,but 223 is more versatile-though for varmints,

in realistic field conditions ,there is very little in it,and both have similar distance limitations (the heavy bullet 223 has a far better chance of hitting bigger gongs at 600+y,if that matters.)

No real surprises-it's essentially the same case-but it is a choice.

Most of the time,a 222 would be alongside-at the edge of all three's comfort envelope,shooter skill in wind reading is way ,way more important than an inch or so in ballistic drop/drift.

You can tinker with performance,by all means,but you don't really move up to the next sub- class,the 22/250 and 204. They will give maybe 50y more,especially in benign conditions.If you really need that,and more,and relatively few do if shooting to say 300y,get a 6mm;and pay the price (recoil etc).

Absolutely no reason not to indulge,of course,but be realistic.

gbal