223 AR nightvision setup

[dorg]

Remember the most important thing to see when shooting is not the thing you are shooting at, but whats behind it, people using nv, shooting quarry at the limit of their sights are being unsafe. You really identify much with a drone at 400yds with any real certainty.

[pork chop]

don't remember saying anything about shooting foxes at 400

[swagger700]

Looks like this is a drone v gen 3 thing. At 3 times the price of a drone raptor should be good, the drone can be used day and night sat out tonight from half 6 with mine could see stuff at range and then with what ambient light before dark. Drone is good value money performance and i would not dispute gen 3 performance either

[sussexsteve]

Im not here to fall out with anyone just give my honest opinion. Have you chaps that doubt its quality used one ?

Atb steve

[Montey]

Ok I have the gen 3 top of the range Archer and the drone x10 the archer cost!£3000 the drone £1800 just over half the archer only works propyl after fitting it to my S&B P11 Cost £2000 plus (can't rember exact amount) The archer can't be used without blowing holes in it with the lazer or anm800 or t120 if used at under 80 or so yards splash back from trees or a truck your shooting from will also damage the tube The drone will work way out to 300 yards and I don't want to shoot much further on the ground I've got for safety reasons or shot placement I have a Dolphin Guns 223 that is superb with a 1in 8 twist that I use for day time shooting because I have to know my drops and. a custom Howa /Ruger /RPA204 that I load 32g Vmax for (32g shoots real flat which Is what you need with NV ) Point is get what's best for you and we're you going to shoot I use the 38s thermal for spotting as well as the archer without a lazer I've been out with some £5000 plus NV and its great kit but it was the rite ground for it and not mine

[pork chop]

Im not here to fall out with anyone just give my honest opinion. Have you chaps that doubt its quality used one ?

Atb steve

nor was i ,but our kit's been branded a joke and now i'm been called an unsafe shot

[achosenman]

 

I read some rubbish occasionally and the comment regarding runners with a 223 is utter piffle. A poorly placed bullet from a 220 Swift will get a runner, I know this because I saw it last year with a gamekeeper that I was out with on the neighbouring estate. His problem was that he only ever shot for real and never practised. He was a mediocre marksman at best and it showed in bullet placement.

 

FWIW I had a digital NV unit and they are remarkable for the money. They give a Gen 3 a run for it's money and I predict that image intensifier tubes will be a has-been in the civvie world before long. The issue I had was magnification, or lack of it. I now use an Archer with a PM2. It is way better than what I have been using with digital, but that is changing year on year. I shot 6 foxes Friday night. The last one was 301m in a xw as it sat looking in my direction. The 223 killed it DRT despite me getting the range wrong by 60m, mind you I was spot on with the wind.

 

ATB

[gbal]

I read some rubbish occasionally and the comment regarding runners with a 223 is utter piffle. A poorly placed bullet from a 220 Swift will get a runner, I know this because I saw it last year with a gamekeeper that I was out with on the neighbouring estate. His problem was that he only ever shot for real and never practised. He was a mediocre marksman at best and it showed in bullet placement.

FWIW I had a digital NV unit and they are remarkable for the money. They give a Gen 3 a run for it's money and I predict that image intensifier tubes will be a has-been in the civvie world before long. The issue I had was magnification, or lack of it. I now use an Archer with a PM2. It is way better than what I have been using with digital, but that is changing year on year. I shot 6 foxes Friday night. The last one was 301m in a xw as it sat looking in my direction. The 223 killed it DRT despite me getting the range wrong by 60m, mind you I was spot on with the wind.

ATB

 

A bit off topic (NV) but I'd have thought that if a poor bullet placement from a 220 swift can result in a runner,then it is at least possible with a 223...clearly though,these are one offs,or very few,at least as reported.

Thankfully,both cartridges-esp swift-give some leeway for shooter misjudgement- for a 301m fox (remarkable accuracy that,given a 60m error before the shot-maybe no time to laser it?) drop/drift for typical 223 is around 8/13" ,and if hold was based on 240 it would be about 3-4 inches drop/drift less,and if 360 about 7-8 inches drop/drift more....so the difference between error hold and reality is likely to be tolerable for 240y (3-4 inches error)but getting iffy for erroneous 360 estimate as to drift (7-8" error)),but maybe it was a gentle wind,sub 5mph,and a sitting face on fox allows for some drop....or do I need to practice arithmetic more? :-)

[dorg]

One last comment

,Perhaps I have knocked the drone abit too hard,But with the prices of gen 3 stuff coming down fast due to all the digi stuff becoming available, there are some very good tubed units about for £1800 to £2000, These would be better than a drone if set up right, Have I ever used a drone , yes on several occasions.

As for a 223 , I use a 22,250 It gives about 800 fps over a 223 that is much less drop and wind drift but most importantly terminal energy. My friend I shoot with uses a 223 and have witnessed the difference in how these calibres drop foxes 100s 0f times. I would go on to say the 20 cals are worse.

If you have access to other calibres as well as a 223 try putting boards out every 50yds to 400yds and shoot straight at them and note the various drops between each calibre and distance its an eye opener.

My rifle is zeroed at 225yds this means with the extra velocity my impact point is never more than 2 inches high or low out to 300yds and I never worry about wind too much.

I agree digital is affordable and coming on leaps and bounds, one day even thermal will be what everybody is using.

By the way the best thing I ever shot foxes with is a 308 running 110gn v max nothing runs from that.

[gbal]

One last comment

,Perhaps I have knocked the drone abit too hard,But with the prices of gen 3 stuff coming down fast due to all the digi stuff becoming available, there are some very good tubed units about for £1800 to £2000, These would be better than a drone if set up right, Have I ever used a drone , yes on several occasions.

As for a 223 , I use a 22,250 It gives about 800 fps over a 223 that is much less drop and wind drift but most importantly terminal energy. My friend I shoot with uses a 223 and have witnessed the difference in how these calibres drop foxes 100s 0f times. I would go on to say the 20 cals are worse.

If you have access to other calibres as well as a 223 try putting boards out every 50yds to 400yds and shoot straight at them and note the various drops between each calibre and distance its an eye opener.

My rifle is zeroed at 225yds this means with the extra velocity my impact point is never more than 2 inches high or low out to 300yds and I never worry about wind too much.

I agree digital is affordable and coming on leaps and bounds, one day even thermal will be what everybody is using.

By the way the best thing I ever shot foxes with is a 308 running 110gn v max nothing runs from that.

Curiouser and curiouser...and eye opening indeed!

A 22/250 with 40 vmax @4150 zeroed at 200 is indeed under 2" maybe to 225,but at 300 its 4.5/10.5 drop/drift,or at least it used to be.

 

Will a 225 zero really bring it to a 2" drop at 300? Would even an AI version? I accept that 4" will do,ideally with slight allowance.

An inch per mph of wind is tolerable,perhaps not negligible above say 5mph at 300y.

 

A very fine cartridge-and energy point is well made-but not quite the death ray once believed (flat to 300 then rises up a little!) :-)

 

Or are the laws of physics advancing in line with NV technology!

And if they are,what price are they? :-) :-)

[sussexsteve]

Nice reply there Dorg . Poor OP we seem to have gone way off topic ! Glad our eyes and opinions are all different or we would have nothing to talk about. I have a thermal scope coming next month so will post my views..

Atb Steve

[achosenman]

I agree a bit off topic.

 

dorg the 22-250 is one calibre I would go to in a heartbeat. The reason I don't is because I fire many thousands of rounds per year. e.g., I will blow through 100 in a single outing just practising on the gongs. The 22-250 will reduce the money pile in short order. Yes the 223 is less powerful but less a handicap than you imagine.

 

I recently got Nosler reloading book #7 The loads compared to my rifle cartridge and QL are conservative. They give a case capacity of 27.4gn h20. The Lapua cases I use give almost 31gn. Couple that with a tight neck, long throat and a bushed firing pin and the rifle is hardly out of third gear at Nosler's stated max. QL keeps things sensible if you know how to use it.

 

I too adjust my zero to maximise the MPBR envelope. I work in meters. I chose 245m. That gives me an MPBR of 285m with a 3 inch error. Very acceptable on a chest shot fox. So not too dissimilar to your 22-250. The result is just the same as the 22-250. One dead fox, having absorbed the best part of 567ftlbs.

 

gbal

I agree the 220 swift gives you a better margin for error. However any rapid expanding bullet in the chest on a fox from any 22cf will devastate the animal instantly. That's the key though, put the bullet in it's chest.

 

The fox in question was the last of six that I shot last Friday. Newly cut grass opened up a plethora targets. He was sitting watching cubs play. I lasered the trees where I thought they were and got 240m but no depth of field made it difficult. I should have used the MSR reticle but I was tired and didn't think of it at the time. I held off for wind and picked the spot that would give me a throat shot if high or a low chest shot if the bullet went low...it went low. I held off to the right of his chest as he sat facing me. I estimated a 5mph wind. The tree tops were just moving. The bullet struck 1.5 inches lower than intended. It didn't matter.

 

ATB

[Swamp Donkey]

 

By the way the best thing I ever shot foxes with is a 308 running 110gn v max nothing runs from that.

Yep, can't argue with that. They come out the TRG at 3310fps, I zero 2" high at 100, gives me a pbr of about 280yds, wouldn't want to use it on anything I want to keep for eating though, unless you want mince that is

[achosenman]

Yep, can't argue with that. They come out the TRG at 3310fps, I zero 2" high at 100, gives me a pbr of about 280yds, wouldn't want to use it on anything I want to keep for eating though, unless you want mince that is

I agree, the 30 cal with a light bullet is like chucking hand grenades.

 

ATB

[gbal]

I agree, the 30 cal with a light bullet is like chucking hand grenades.

 

ATB

 

agreed,all. With those sort of ballistics we are splitting 'hares' and would do so ,when the bullet connected.RIP.