222 under sized bullets when pulled

[sonic]

I loaded some 50 gn Hornady sxsp in once fired then full length sized brass (can't remember brand atm).

Tested them then pulled the unfired ones to reuse the bullets etc. I found that they were loose in the one fired and neck sized PPU brass I was loading. At first I thought it was maybe an odd one. but found all the pulled bullets measured under size by a thou or two with a step at the point where the bullet stuck out of the neck. I also found the "flat base" to be rounded.

 

Has anyone else found this? Any ideas on why?

I know necks are "x" under sized to grip the bullet but how much is too much?

 

The results were a little bit disappointing with the test loads I thought powder H322 maybe the problem.

Not my first choice but it was the only one available at the time.

The same loads were tried in two rifles with different brass.

 

 

[buddy.223]

did I read somewhere these were available in .223(older hornet)& .224. have you had them for years.

[gbal]

did I read somewhere these were available in .223(older hornet)& .224. have you had them for years.

Yes,Hornet Bullets were/are available in either 223 (for older H barrels) and 224(as most current 22cfs).The thou difference shows!

But whether this box is the 'old Hornet' specs can only be checked against the bullet type number on the box.....unless the small print says 'Hornet' ! Micrometer measuring of a decent sample from the box should confirm actual diameter....don't buy any more unless they are micrometer checked at 224.

Gbal

[sonic]

No these are new .224 bullets and pre loading measure right.

As a matter of interest my son was pulling the bullets for me and pulled a factory PPU by mistake 50 gn soft point it measures .224".

[gbal]

Ok...so the Hsxsp 50g new bullets are miking .224,from the box before being loaded ,but after loading and being pulled are now 222/223 ? And the base is more 'rounded'?And there is a ridge-diff diameter-on the bullet bearing surface just at the point where the bullet loading depth was into the case?

If so ,odd indeed-cases are normally necked to a little below bullet diameter,for retention-fancier bushing dies can adjust just how much,and with chamber size,but of course this is based on the case brass expanding,not the bullet being 'swaged' by the case,when the bullet is seated....?

Do other bullets load/pull giving the same the same changes? Try other brass? Any previous issues?New dies/chamber/anything??

Gbal

[Andrew]

Truly odd. It's hard to imagine that the bullet is being swaged by being seated in a cartridge case.~Andrew

[oaken]

Are you using a crimp die?

[sonic]

Ok...so the Hsxsp 50g new bullets are miking .224,from the box before being loaded ,but after loading and being pulled are now 222/223 ? And the base is more 'rounded'?And there is a ridge-diff diameter-on the bullet bearing surface just at the point where the bullet loading depth was into the case?

If so ,odd indeed-cases are normally necked to a little below bullet diameter,for retention-fancier bushing dies can adjust just how much,and with chamber size,but of course this is based on the case brass expanding,not the bullet being 'swaged' by the case,when the bullet is seated....?

Do other bullets load/pull giving the same the same changes? Try other brass? Any previous issues?New dies/chamber/anything??

Gbal

That is it exactly.

 

New set of Lee dies three die set will have to dig them out and mic the expander and mandrel respectively.

 

No crimp die.

 

I've been reloading for 243 for years and never found this, but have only had the 222 for a few months. I bought a new set of dies and TBO have only loaded fifty rounds in Remington (I think) once fired (from a mates rifle) which was full lenth resized.

My second batch was PPU neck sized as it was fired in this rifle. I've not pulled any of these but the groups were no better than factory.

To do list is pull left overs from second batch mic dies and internal dims on neck. will post what I find.

[EMcC]

I find that with my Remmy .222 the PPU ammo is so good I no longer need to reload.

[sonic]

I find that with my Remmy .222 the PPU ammo is so good I no longer need to reload.

I wish at first it appeared that PPU was good enough with groups under 1" at 100 yds. But I had some odd bullet placement when foxing hits well off POA.

So I checked zero at 100 then group at 200 yds, It was about 4.5" wide 6" high from prone with a butt bag wind was less than 2mph and at 15 degrees. Doesn't get much better than that round here.

[gbal]

I wish at first it appeared that PPU was good enough with groups under 1" at 100 yds. But I had some odd bullet placement when foxing hits well off POA.

So I checked zero at 100 then group at 200 yds, It was about 4.5" wide 6" high from prone with a butt bag wind was less than 2mph and at 15 degrees. Doesn't get much better than that round here.

The plot thickens!

So factory PPU ammo was grouping sub moa at 100y(and zeroed for 100) but was.....bigger at 200(what size?) and POI was 4.5 wide and 6 high,with only 2mph wind?

Clearly,not just the Hornady sx bullets,or just the reloading/dies etc. There may (also) be a more basic issue with rifle/scope?

Has this rifle/scope shot well recently?

Gbal

[sonic]

I know the scope is ok it came off another of my rifles. the 222 rifle is new to me mounts are new all screws etc have been checked and double checked. I've tried with moderator off as well as on.

I'm reasonably confident the rifles ok

 

On the die measurements the full length expander is 0.22315" and neck mandrel 0.22260".

 

I've been talking to a friend who is a RFD and he said that the H sxsp are thin jacketed and have a fairly soft core. So this may explain the deformation.

 

But is the measurement difference between the mandrel and expander for a reason? How much neck tension is normal for .222? Is the mandrel smaller because of spring back in the brass?

[gbal]

I know the scope is ok it came off another of my rifles. the 222 rifle is new to me mounts are new all screws etc have been checked and double checked. I've tried with moderator off as well as on.

I'm reasonably confident the rifles ok

 

On the die measurements the full length expander is 0.22315" and neck mandrel 0.22260".

 

I've been talking to a friend who is a RFD and he said that the H sxsp are thin jacketed and have a fairly soft core. So this may explain the deformation.

 

But is the measurement difference between the mandrel and expander for a reason? How much neck tension is normal for .222? Is the mandrel smaller because of spring back in the brass?

 

Hmmm...the much different POI for factory ammo at 200 can't be caused by the dies....

You could try loading/pulling some other 224 bullet(s) to see if they get 'swaged' like the Hornady sxsp-if yes,dies probably,if not-just the H sxsp construction,as per RFD.

 

Has the rifle shot well with anything ,so far- trying to eliminate possible factors-if it was just the H sxsp,and everything else shot ok,then the simple answer meantime is to just not load H sxsp,of course. (or PPU at 200,but that discrepancy -if confirmed-is of some concern).

Gbal

[sonic]

I have not had the rifle long and put PPU through it groups were ok so used that as I didn't have time to load for it. And had some foxes to sort asap. So can't say what it "likes".

I have some 40 gn vmax to try so will see what happens.

As for mandrel sizes I may email Lee to see what they say.