Lovex powders

[entel]

Has anybody any views on Lovex powders for reloading .308 win. I was speaking to Fred James. At Bisley about the availability of it, he has various types of this powder but I was at a loss to which would suit me. Those out there that use it could you please give me your favourites. Many thanks. And a Happy Christmas to you all

Regards Entel49

[dannywayoflife]

What's your application bullet weight barrel length etc?

[Finman]

Has anybody any views on Lovex powders for reloading .308 win. I was speaking to Fred James. At Bisley about the availability of it, he has various types of this powder but I was at a loss to which would suit me. Those out there that use it could you please give me your favourites. Many thanks. And a Happy Christmas to you all

Regards Entel49

I get excellent results with SO65 and the 180gn SGK. Good powder and very stable,

 

Best wishes

 

Finman

[Laurie]

SO62 (Accurate-4064) is Lovex's near-clone of the venerable IMR-4064 which is one of the best multi-purpose powders around for mid size cartridges including .308 with 155-175s. I've found the slightly slower burning SO65 to be rather too slow burning and bulky for 308 with all but heavier bullets in the cartridge as you're into compressed loads before you get full pressures and velocities.

 

Both burn cleanly in full-pressure loads but are traditional extruded ('stick') powders which many don't like in mechanical powder measures. SO70 is another excellent Lovex powder with a burning rate that matches the 4350s and usually gives excellent results in 6.5s, 7X57mm, .30-06 etc provided a dense powder charge isn't needed as it's longer grained than SO62 and SO65.

 

The Lovex ball powders often give excellent results too, and VERY high velocities, but are a bit too dirty burning for my taste. DO73.6 (Accurate-2520) would be the one to try in .308 Win with most bullet weights. It's particularly well suited to mid-velocity loads with the 168gn Sierra MK and similar and the old 2520 was popular in US High-Power Service Rifle in the 7.62mm M1A and M14 rifles.

 

Note that there is a little confusion over names and powders between Lovex and Accurate. Lovex used to make most of the powders sold under the American 'Accurate Arms' company's name. Accurate was bought out by Western Powders some years back who are the Ramshot people, most of whose ball propellants come from PB Clermont in Belgium. After buying AA, Western switched supplier to PB Clermont for most ball powder grades and also gets its extruded grades from somebody other than Lovex. Lovex should have reverted to its European SO and DO names here after this change, but tends to be labelled and called by the former Accurate name or both on the tin. Accurate reloading data as available on Western's website can still be used for Lovex powders generally if you know the equivalent names as 'new Accurate' loads are hardly changed from those for 'old Accurate'. The UK Lovex importer / distributor is Westlander Limited which has a website.

 

Lovex data is available online as a downloadable pdf file

 

http://www.explosia.cz/en/streliviny/download/reloading_EN.pdf

[Amleto63]

Laurie,

Currently in Italy we suffer lack of VV N150. Any suggestion for a Lovex replacement 190smk/2700fps/600yds load?

[Laurie]

Hmmmm .... nothing matches perfectly. DO73.6 (Accurate-2520 as was) fits in the case OK and while it gives excellent velocities in .223 with heavy bullets and 308 with lighter bullets is a bit too fast burning for a .308 LR load with the 190 SMK. I've found this powder a bit too dirty burning for my liking too in the past, and I'm not sure how well it would do in a string of matches in a day with a high total round count for this reason.

 

SO62 is one I've used a lot with lighter bullets in 308 and it's a very good powder for short-range loads with 155s, 168s and 175s. It's just a bit too fast burning to produce what you want with the 190. Probably OK if you're prepared to drop nearly 100 fps.

 

SO65 is shown as having the same burning rate as VarGet by Explosia and is apparently a contender for this sort of application. The Lovex loading data is pretty useless as almost every bullet listed is given the same maximum load, this obviously determined by case capacity and fill-ratio, not peak pressure. My experience of the powder is that it's a bit slower burning than Varget (as is N150), but it's also rather bulky (as is N150).

 

It MIGHT just work in lieu of N150 (not as a straight substitute of course) depending on how long throated your rifle is and therefore how deep the 190 SMK is seated, which case you're using, and how much you can sensibly pack into the case using a long drop tube, slow charge pour and the swirl method without getting to excessive charge compression. QuickLOAD suggests it's just possible within safe parameters - but that's no guarantee that (1) it'll turn out so in practice, and (2) that load shoots well in your rifle at that sort of load and MV. You should manage to get it to the 2,650 fps mark anyway. (I'm assuming a 30-inch barrel length with you running a 190 at 2,700, and I'm also assuming we're talking .308 Winchester.)

 

The UK Viht importer / distributor is expecting a shipment in February, and Viht is obviously back in full scale production. It might be worth enquring of your importer when he expects more N150 to arrive. It may not be too long before you can get it again.

[Amleto63]

Currently my OCW with 190smk for 600yds range is 44.2g 0.020 from lands.

My 308 1/11 32" Dolphin rifle is throated for the 185 jug Berger which I would save for longer ranges.

Using Lovex would be my plan B in case of VV Italian importer's issues. I will get your suggestion before applying my back-up plan.

 

Thanks for your very informative reply, as usual.

Cheers,

Amleto

[Amleto63]

Forgot mentioning I use Lapua brasses, of course, lightly neck turned and I fill them using a 6" drop tube.

What do you exactly mean for "slow charge pour" and "swirl method". Never read about it even in your .308 in-depth articles.

 

Thanks

[Laurie]

A six inch drop tube is good. The swirl method is to hold the funnel onto the case-mouth with one hand and tilt the assembly a little from vertical. Hold the scale pan in the other hand and slowly pour the powder into the funnel, but not straght into tghe centre, rather at an angle and so it lands on the lower side of the (tilted) funnel wall maybe half way up it, or a bit higher. The combination of angles and the powder's momentum as you pour sees it run part way around the funnel wall and swirling in one direction before exiting into the drop tube - like water running down a plughole.

 

It not only packs more extruded powder into the case, but allegedly has combustion benefits in how the kernels are aligned inside the case, it being consistent from cartridge to cartridge.

[Amleto63]

Learning and improving never end!

 

Thanks again, Laurie.

[Murph]

A six inch drop tube is good. The swirl method is to hold the funnel onto the case-mouth with one hand and tilt the assembly a little from vertical. Hold the scale pan in the other hand and slowly pour the powder into the funnel, but not straght into tghe centre, rather at an angle and so it lands on the lower side of the (tilted) funnel wall maybe half way up it, or a bit higher. The combination of angles and the powder's momentum as you pour sees it run part way around the funnel wall and swirling in one direction before exiting into the drop tube - like water running down a plughole.

 

It not only packs more extruded powder into the case, but allegedly has combustion benefits in how the kernels are aligned inside the case, it being consistent from cartridge to cartridge.

So I've been using the swirl method and didn't even know it. I'm using h4895 for my 223 and if I pour it directly into the centre it was filling the case more through misalignment of the kernels. Good to know. As usual Laurie your knowledge of all things reloading is very much appreciated.

[branko]

Does anyone know of a replacement powder for magpro?

Using it for 160 gr nosler accubonds in 7mm rem mag. I cant seem to find any magpro.

[Laurie]

Magpro seems to have dropped off the radar when Accurate in the US and its ertswhile Czech supplier Lovex went their separate ways. I'm not sure that Lovex even made Magpro - it's currently listed as 'made in the USA' which in practice means it comes out of the St. Marks Powder Co. in Florida which manufactures all Hodgdon and Winchester ball powder grades. A lot of these very slow burning ball powders weren't developed for handloaders, but for some military ammo purpose or other with the manufacturer making a bit of money on the side by producing the data for magnum rifle shooting handloaders and packaging a small part of the output in 1lb or 8lb bottles.

 

The nearest ball powder equivalent that's readily available here is Ramshot Magnum which is shown as slightly slower burning. It also has a lower specific energy rating at 3,775 J/g v MagPro's 3,880 J/g, so would need a heavier charge to produce as much energy everything else equal (which it usually isn't!).

 

Accurate lists 71.0gn MagPro as max for the 7mm Rem Mag with the 160 Accubond for 2,958 fps (Win case and WLR primer)

 

Ramshot data doesn't have this bullet in 7mm Rem Mag but shows 71.2gn 'Magnum' as maximum for the 160gn Barnes-X (a non-grooved all copper bullet that generates higher pressures than a lead core / gilding metal jacketed type), and 72.6gn for the 162gn Hornady A-Max, both listed as 2,947 fps case not stated, F215 magnum primer, both powders in a 24-inch barrel.

 

So, performance and characteristics look pretty similar - but that's not to say that the Ramshot will work as well for you, or then again may work better. As always, start lower and work up. Ramshot data is available as a PDF download from the company's website.

[branko]

.Laurie

Thanks for the info, looks like I need to get some some ramshot magnum as theres no magpro in the UK.

 

Can someone run quickload for me, details as follows.

 

7mm rem mag. 27" barrel 1in9 twist

Norma brass fireformed hold 87 gr water

160 gr accubond

Ramshot magnum powder

Fed large rifle magnum primer

[Laurie]

You don't say how the rifle is throated and hence the COAL you're running at (which affects the predicted PMax considerably), but using the SAAMI COAL as the default option, Ramshot's data and QuickLOAD agree very closely that a maximum load is somewhere around 72.5gn Ramshot Magnum:

 

Cartridge : 7 mm Rem. Mag.
Bullet : .284, 160, Nosler AccuBond 54932
Useable Case Capaci: 72.296 grain H2O = 4.694 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
Barrel Length : 27.0 inch = 685.8 mm
Powder : Ramshot Magnum (Big Boy)

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 91 65.25 2812 2809 42058 11060 97.1 1.495
-09.0 92 65.98 2847 2880 43663 11174 97.5 1.469
-08.0 93 66.70 2882 2951 45338 11282 97.9 1.443
-07.0 94 67.43 2918 3024 47085 11383 98.3 1.418
-06.0 96 68.15 2953 3098 48910 11477 98.7 1.394
-05.0 97 68.88 2988 3172 50818 11563 99.0 1.369
-04.0 98 69.60 3023 3247 52811 11642 99.2 1.345
-03.0 99 70.33 3059 3323 54897 11714 99.5 1.322 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 100 71.05 3094 3400 57079 11777 99.7 1.299 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 101 71.78 3129 3478 59365 11832 99.8 1.276 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 102 72.50 3164 3556 61760 11879 99.9 1.254 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.0 103 73.23 3199 3635 64269 11917 100.0 1.232 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 104 73.95 3233 3714 66900 11947 100.0 1.211 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 105 74.68 3268 3794 69664 11971 100.0 1.189 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 106 75.40 3303 3875 72565 11993 100.0 1.169 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 107 76.13 3337 3956 75610 12013 100.0 1.148 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 102 72.50 3312 3897 77366 11325 100.0 1.149 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 102 72.50 2942 3076 48503 11877 95.4 1.392

 

 

Although the graduated listing above shows 72.5gn / 61,760 psi as 'dangerous', it's just within the SAAMI maximum allowed of 62,366 psi. Ramshot's recommended starting load is 65.3gn, butr looking at the QuickLOAD result, somewhere around 68-69gn looks more sensible.

[branko]

 

Laurie

Really appreciate this, thank you. I dont know if following will help get to a closer estimate.

The rifle was built on a sako finnbear action, it has a truflight barrel.. the coal to the lands is 2.824 and .02" backed off from touching the lands. I might back off .04 to see what happens. Or do you need the total length from base to tip which is 3.385" which is the measurement that includes the 0.02" back off.

 

The reamer was from pacific tool I have a chamber print for further information.

 

Also looking at a back up bullet as we haave shortages in uk. 7mm rem mag

Nosler partition 160 gr.the measurement was 2.742" to lands just touching, overall tip to base is

3.306" the tip on this bullet can vary greatly due to its lead tip so not sure on this one.

Would the above make much difference to original quicload predictions??

Branko