6.5shooter Posted November 28, 2013 Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 Im just wondering what are everyones thoughts on barrel length for a repeating actioned rifle. What I mean is, you hear all of this talk about using single shot actions as they are stiffer etc. id agree but up to what point is a mag fed action not strong enough? What is the max length barrel you would dare put on a repeater? What profile barrel? Does the calibre bear any impact on the decision? Just wondering as I have a 28" barrel with straight profile which wears a heavy ase sl5 on the end and its one of my most accurate rifles. When is enough not enough? Just wondering what peoples thoughts are on the subject? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted November 29, 2013 Report Share Posted November 29, 2013 People worry far too much about it. However, extremes can give good examples. Fit a 28" or 30" parallel tube to a remmy with a standard lug and you will undoubtedly stress the action. However, if you then sit the barrelled action in a good depth of devcon and bed a couple of inch in front the lug, then it will work fine. Then take a good quality rem clone action which will typically have a smaller ejection port and a little more steel left in the action body. You can hang the same barrel off the front without bedding forward. Tikka,s are another good example. They have a short tenon, but I,ve fitted long, heavy barrels to them and they have shot exceptionally well. Very few calibres absolutely must have such long barrels, with the exception of 308 ftr rifles etc, where supersonic flight at 1000 yards is a must. For most applications, a shorter barrels advantages outweigh a few fps loss. A good example would be my old 6.5 x 47 . With a 28" barrel it did 2850 fps. My tikka with a 20" barrel does 2750 fps. What calibre are you talking about ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannywayoflife Posted November 29, 2013 Report Share Posted November 29, 2013 Iteresting info as always Dave. I thought the tenion on the tikka was relatively long though at .98"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5shooter Posted November 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2013 The rifle that I am talking about Dave is my 6x47. It is a quadlite with an inch forward of the lug bedded. This is another thing, bedding forward of the lug! This will effect harmonics and is that not something which should be steered away from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted November 29, 2013 Report Share Posted November 29, 2013 The rifle that I am talking about Dave is my 6x47. It is a quadlite with an inch forward of the lug bedded. This is another thing, bedding forward of the lug! This will effect harmonics and is that not something which should be steered away from? Nathan Foster, (NZ longrange hunter and riflesmith) complains that about 80% of custom riflesmiths do not stress relieved actions by bedding any of the barrel channel in front the recoil lug.(he goes about 2 inches ).He says his tests on free floated factory Sendero magnums show better than 1moa accuracy,but bedding as above will halve the groups.Pretty much as Dave says! So I'd leave the quadlite as is! I wonder what 1000 yard -and very long barrel - 308 TR shooters do? Gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted November 29, 2013 Report Share Posted November 29, 2013 The rifle that I am talking about Dave is my 6x47. It is a quadlite with an inch forward of the lug bedded. This is another thing, bedding forward of the lug! This will effect harmonics and is that not something which should be steered away from? Nathan Foster, (NZ longrange hunter and riflesmith) complains that about 80% of custom riflesmiths do not stress relieved actions by bedding any of the barrel channel in front the recoil lug.(he goes about 2 inches ).He says his tests on free floated factory Sendero magnums show better than 1moa accuracy,but bedding as above will halve the groups. Pretty much like Dave says! So I'd leave the quadlite as is! I wonder what 1000 yard -and very long barrel - 308 TR shooters do? Gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagged 77 Posted November 29, 2013 Report Share Posted November 29, 2013 On the subject of bedding forward of the recoil lug opinions seem to vary. For example GAP bed forward of the lug and they shoot just fine. I've got a .338 with a straight taper 30" barrel (its a drainpipe) hung off a Rem 700 .338 MLR action. I've two stocks, one is a Manners T5 which I fully pillar bed including 2" of bedding forward of the lug. The second is a LA AICS. I see no discernible difference in accuracy between the two whatsoever. Noticeable however it shoots better with a muzzle brake than with the large and heavy ASE suppressor in both stocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted November 29, 2013 Report Share Posted November 29, 2013 On the subject of bedding forward of the recoil lug opinions seem to vary. For example GAP bed forward of the lug and they shoot just fine. I've got a .338 with a straight taper 30" barrel (its a drainpipe) hung off a Rem 700 .338 MLR action. I've two stocks, one is a Manners T5 which I fully pillar bed including 2" of bedding forward of the lug. The second is a LA AICS. I see no discernible difference in accuracy between the two whatsoever. Noticeable however it shoots better with a muzzle brake than with the large and heavy ASE suppressor in both stocks. That is interesting. Foster is talking about very long range effects-like 1000+,pretty academic for most hunters,esp in UK,so its possible that any improvement-or otherwise- would not be noticeable by most stalkers here. Full length ('mannlicher") stocks often had a near muzzle screw/fixing-I don't recall serious accuracy deficits with them,but that would be at pretty short range....eg 222 1/2 moa to 200y,barrels often quite short,though,and not 'whippy'-the alternative disease!(surgery!) Gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatzi Posted November 29, 2013 Report Share Posted November 29, 2013 Baldie built me a gun several years ago on a remington and the barrel was quite a heavy one. I bedded two inches forward of the lug and the gun has been a belter. I dont really see why people are so frightened of bedding a small amount ahead o the lug, i cant really see how you can argue the lug barrel and action arent a single solid member in reality. Where does the action stop.........probably the front action bolt in reality? You can argue it black and blue but at the end of the day id be more concerned by an overstressed action than a barrel bedded 2" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagged 77 Posted November 29, 2013 Report Share Posted November 29, 2013 I can only talk about my own experience, at the end of the day I've bedded the T5 and although I did a good job its not a professional effort. I don't think there is any detrimental effect to bedding forward of the lug. I don't shoot the .338 below 1000 yards very often so all my experience is based on long range results with both stocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-NZ Posted November 29, 2013 Report Share Posted November 29, 2013 Nathan Foster, (NZ longrange hunter and riflesmith).. Gbal Haven't heard of him George. He certainly isn't one of the leading lights here There are many ways of skinning this cat. I'm sure you'll be able to find opinions in either direction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 Haven't heard of him George. He certainly isn't one of the leading lights here There are many ways of skinning this cat. I'm sure you'll be able to find opinions in either direction Hi Chris, He operates out of Taranaki-guided hunts,teaches ('thousands of hunters worldwide')and terminal ballistics research,rifle accurising,'Match Grade bedding'-all on long range big critters,explicitly not varmints! He claims 7,500 head taken,and 100.000 hits on website/month. Having read his two books,and websites,I can see that he has informed views,perhaps the odd maverick one-he is somewhat under-convincing on sound suppressors,for instance,but his experience cannot be judged outside the NZ context-we don't shoot many big stags at 1000+ yards in the UK! "The practical guide to long range hunting rifles' 2012 "The practical guide to long range hunting cartridges' 2013 Both books published by Terminal Ballistics Research -readable,pity no indexes. See also www.ballisticstudies.com atb, george Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-NZ Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 Oh, that guy George. He does bedding but DEF isn't a 'smith. I've read a bit of his stuff on bullet performance and it's "detailed" but apparently is largely based on shooting goats and pigs, and def not at true long range on deer. I'd suspect sample size is small on these... If smiths your way used his bedding techniques, it'd add 1000 quid to the price I'd guess. Can't recall the exact time but he was adamant a "proper bedding job" took at least 8hrs or you weren't doing it right!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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