.223 fast twist vs .204

[247sniper]

Hi guys,

 

I currently have a .204 ruger that shoots very well, but pondering with the idea of a .223 fast twist to shoot the heavey rounds like the 75/80 grain A-Max's.

 

I enjoy and love long range targets and rabbit/corvid splatting with my .204 out to 500 yards.

 

Question is, would I benifit from a fast twist .223 shooting the 75/80's out to these ranges, I know the 204 will still be flatter shooting but will the wind drift be largely beneficial out to 500 yards, tradjectory isn't a problem as I will be dialing in.

 

If I got a fast twist.223 I would also like to push the ranges beyond 500/600 yards if the cartridge bullet combination will do it?

 

The purpose of this rifle is not to walk along a hedge row shooting rabbits etc at 120 yards, its more to be used as a vantage point static rifle shooting long range intended to be better then my 204.

 

Just thought id add, Id love a .260 rem or a 6.5x47 but all we have species wise over here is rabbits and corvids, no fox and no dear so the likely Ness of anyone getting a 260 rem or the likes is nill! Thought id better mention this now guys before any other suggestions!

 

Whats your views and thoughts guys?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Steve

[tackb]

Fast twist 223 will reach right out there, I've shot 900yds with my 18" Sako 1-8 twist with 75g Amax

[achosenman]

That's one of the reasons I got rid of the 204 and went back to the 223.

With a 70gn VLD it's on another planet performance wise when compared to the 204.

 

ATB

[varmintexpress]

I would be interested to know the difference in safety between the 204 and the 223 in terms of frag ability and ricochet. I would have though there would be less expansion with the 75g a max compared to you 204 heads.

 

I tested a 55g hornaday super explosive soft nose compared to a 75g amax last weekend into 2 inch pieces of soft wood stacked up. the a max didn't expand much until it got into 5/6 pieces. compared to the sx which expanded into the 2/3 piece.

[achosenman]

Frangibility of the 204 is better in the lighter bullets IMHO. However I use 52gn in the 1-9 barrel for foxing with NV, no problems. The fast twist helps the frangibility factor and that seems to match what I used to get with a 40gn 204. Two foxes last night, both at 130 paces or so, one head shot, one broadside on in the shoulder, no exit wound on either.

 

I've settled on three bullet weights for the 223. 52gn, 60gn and 70gn. The 52gn I use at night for foxes or the shorter range stuff. 60gn Ballistic Tip gets used as a general purpose all rounder and the 70gn VLD comes out when the range is going to be beyond a 204's wildest dreams.

 

Having a dope card for each load, makes grabbing a box of the preferred round and walking out the door a three second affair.

 

You do need to treat the 70gn VLD as a ball round since as you say, long range expansion is iffy at best.

 

ATB

[247sniper]

Fast twist 223 will reach right out there, I've shot 900yds with my 18" Sako 1-8 twist with 75g Amax

 

How do you find velocity with a 18 " barrel. Is velocity not so important with high BC bullets, or would i be better going for a 22-24 inch barrel?

[bradders]

How do you find velocity with a 18 " barrel. Is velocity not so important with high BC bullets, or would i be better going for a 22-24 inch barrel?

You're not burning much powder beyond about 16" so velocity gains per inch beyond that are not as great as some think

[tackb]

2850 fps , works for me !

[gbal]

Hi Steve,

Interesting question-some do shoot the 223 at 600+,with some satisfaction,so it looks like a possible,given fast twist and heavier bullets,as you know.In all that follows,I'm assuming a 200 zero,10mph wind,and top,but not above SAAMI,pressures.

 

The 204 and 223 are "thutty/thutty cartridges"-ie drop at 500 is about 30 inches,and drift at 500 is about 30 inches.

The 240 Weatherby Mag will still be 30" drop,but gets drift down reduced to 20"

 

The 264mag/6.5-284 is still 30"drop,but drift is reduced to 16"

The very best 7mags get it to 29" drop,13" drift

 

Hmm...so drop is pretty much stuck at 30" for 500y,and we have to burn a LOT of powder to reduce drift,and only then in the 6/7 mags.Needless to say,this only gets worse for longer distances....

 

Nonetheless,the 223 is shot at up to 1000y,Laurie even had some limited success on targets-though I would think every last bit of velocity etc would be needed,even accepting Bradder's point of diminishing returns-you can't have any diminution-to match the 6.5x284 the 223 needs 90g(BC.5) at 3270fps.

Of course,matching the 6.5x284 was not the explicit criterion-though it's not a bad one,given the aim of hitting something rather small (half moa,sometimes).

I have seen 223s walked in fairly close around,but not consistently hitting,1000 y approx targets (3'x2'),on a benign day,by a good distance field shooter (rem 700,I think,probably not heavy bullets).700y was not a problem.

Of course that could be improved,and F/TR data might do so-if anyone is shooting 223 in competition-I'd hesitate to say 'competitively'!

 

Steve,good news and less so-none of us are going to get a 7mm Dakota to shoot bunnies in the boonies; I'll be interested to see how a very good field shooter gets on if you go the 223 route.

 

Gbal

[6.5shooter]

 

How do you find velocity with a 18 " barrel. Is velocity not so important with high BC bullets, or would i be better going for a 22-24 inch barrel?

 

Depends what you want from the rifle.

Around 20 inches is great for a lighter carry rifle or getting pointed out of the jeep quick but if you want maximum performance from the cartridge then obviously the longer the better.

[bradders]

90's are too much bullet for a .223.

The marginally higher BC of the 90's is not enough to overcome the extra speed you can get from a slightly lighter 80, especially a very high quality VLD such as JLK's 80, which has a BC of approx .510, whereas Sierra's 90 has a BC around .560

The 80 JLK's can go about 200fps faster and will win in the wind drift battle.

[tackb]

to be honest although you can take the little old 223 out to some surprising distances there is better rounds available for long range.

[247sniper]

to be honest although you can take the little old 223 out to some surprising distances there is better rounds available for long range.

Thanks for that, Yes I know but if you read the first post I state that we are not allowed anything bigger then .204/223 as we dont have deer or fox over here on the island. Im just trying to make the best out of the kit we are allowed. A fast twist seems it may be good way to go? Have you got a fast twist .223 or any experience of one?

[tackb]

Thanks for that, Yes I know but if you read the first post I state that we are not allowed anything bigger then .204/223 as we dont have deer or fox over here on the island. Im just trying to make the best out of the kit we are allowed. A fast twist seems it may be good way to go? Have you got a fast twist .223 or any experience of one?

 

i know , don't get your panties in a bunch !

 

if you'd read my replies you'd have seen i currently run a custom sako 75 with a 1-8" barrel 18" long and have used it to 900 yds ? i also used to run a remmy LTR 700 with a 20" 1-9" which wouldn't stabilise the 75 amax.

 

is there any chance they would let you have something light in 6mm like a 6br?

[247sniper]

 

i know , don't get your panties in a bunch !

 

if you'd read my replies you'd have seen i currently run a custom sako 75 with a 1-8" barrel 18" long and have used it to 900 yds ? i also used to run a remmy LTR 700 with a 20" 1-9" which wouldn't stabilise the 75 amax.

 

is there any chance they would let you have something light in 6mm like a 6br?

Sorry fella, didnt read it before I sent it, did come across abit snotty, sorry mate.

 

I doubt they would fella, they go of the old muzzle energy theory and base the factory figures of the .204 at 1300ftlbs as the higher limit! They would see that a 6mmBR has around 2000ftlbs and that which promotes growth and vigour their pants ! lol

 

Its not me thats the problem for every one, thats the reason behind the though of the fast twist .223.

 

 

Steve.

[tackb]

then your best solution is a 1-8 twist 223 with a 22-24" barrel throated for the 75/80 grain amax ? if you can get something that allows you to seat well out that will help because case capacity for powder will be at a premium for what your planning.

[leadpig]

 

i know , don't get your panties in a bunch !

 

? i also used to run a remmy LTR 700 with a 20" 1-9" which wouldn't stabilise the 75 amax.

roughly what type of usable range were you getting out of that bud and any prefered bullet weight.

reason i ask is ive just finished playing with my 700 vtr.chopped the brake off and had it recrowned and threaded,hs presision stock,staight blade timney trigger unit,warne rings and a sightron 6-24x50 lrmd scope .

but i am waiting on powder as usual and my fac went in for variation so i cant buy any factory .

i fear the suspense will kill me soon