Newbie with two cals

[swatty]

Well I've been a member of this forum for a good while and not really had anything much to say just had a quick browse here and there . But now I'm sure you can help me I've that which promotes growth and vigour rifles for years but never really bothered with ammo or different cals but recently I've had a good swap about and finally decided on the two cals I intend on keeping ,which are 3006 and 22.250 a stalking rifle and a vermin rifle hence now my next step is to start playing around with loads for both calibres . Now I'm brand new to reloading and in fairness I wouldn't of bothered if it wasn't for the fact that the 22.250 came with some reloading gear all the basics to gets going including two tubs of powder Hodgkin h380 and h4895 , now knowing not a lot but very keen to learn I've watched a few of spuds YouTube vid and know the basics I have a mentor who reloads to show me the ropes etc , what I need is are either of these powders suitable for both calibres I intend on using 55 grain v max in the 22.250 and something around 165 grain sp maybe nosler partions in the 06 . Do any of you guys use this powder and have some recipes which would give me a idea .I have hornadys 7 th edition and a old Speer edition to give me basics but anything that will speed up the load development process will be a big help , I'm not sure if knowing my rifles will help but the 22.250 is a remi 700 vssf varmint heavy barrel laminate and in fairness I've only just got it and it shoots Winchester silver tips well inch groups at 100 yards my 3006 is a standard tikka t3 hunter and due to the cost of factory ammo I've used what I bought even though they don't shoot all to well but good enough to level the few reds I've shot with it but it will be nice to trim the group sizes down and be 100% confident in my bullets placement in both cals thanks in advance for any advice

[swatty]

I've just rered my post and my poxy I phone has made up its own words and I carnt find how to edit my original post so I hope you get the jist of what I said thanks

[henryo]

For .22-250 with the bullet weights you are interested in both of those powders should perform very well. H380 is actually named because 38gr of the stuff gave one hole groups in the .22-250 with a 52gr bullet back when it was a wildcat.

 

Check out the cartridge guide: http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/22-250/

 

On paper it looks like those powders should work alright in the .30-06. H4895 perhaps burns a bit fast for the heavier bullets.

 

The only thing I would point out is if your Remington has a 14" twist the 55gr V-Max is a bit borderline in the stability department. What weight heads were in the Winchester factory stuff?

 

All the best

Henry

[simon6ppc]

ive used a 50 or 55 grain bullet with 36 grains of h380 for years pal,ime no loading expert to be honest, but that load as shot hundreds of foxes for me, also it will always shoot around the three quarter inch at 100 yards in my factory sako, cheers simon

[swatty]

For .22-250 with the bullet weights you are interested in both of those powders should perform very well. H380 is actually named because 38gr of the stuff gave one hole groups in the .22-250 with a 52gr bullet back when it was a wildcat.

 

Check out the cartridge guide: http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/22-250/

 

On paper it looks like those powders should work alright in the .30-06. H4895 perhaps burns a bit fast for the heavier bullets.

 

The only thing I would point out is if your Remington has a 14" twist the 55gr V-Max is a bit borderline in the stability department. What weight heads were in the Winchester factory stuff?

 

All the best

Henry

thanks Henry I'm pretty sure the winch esters were 55 I also tried some hornady 50 grainers which shot just as well and some 55 grain federal soft points all shot within a inch of bull and a inch of each other which Fromm experience is better than any other cal I've used so I'm pretty happy with the factory stuff but if it will shoot like this now I'm hoping I can get better with home loads . I'm glad both my powders will do the 22.250 nicely any recommendations the 06 powder wise and bullets ill be using it right across the board from roe to boar do from what I've been told a nice big heavy bullet will cause less damage than lighter faster loads which seems to be the case , 4 roe shot with 150 grain remi core locks and four diaphrams split but they do the business on reds but I need something to do all and could do with getting the 06 load sorted first as I'm happy to play about with the 22.250 more its far more fun to shoot

[henryo]

Sounds like you should be alright with the 55gr V-max then. They are practically the same length as the 55gr Nosler which is in the Winchester ammo.

 

I've had a fiddle with QuickLoad and in .30-06 with a 165gr bullet Hodgdon H4350 looks good. If you like/can get hold of Vihtavuori powders N150 (single base) or N550 (double base - gives higher velocities but burns hotter). These are all extruded/stick/tubular powders by the way.

 

If you wanted to try some lighter bullets in the Springfield the H4895 you have should work well. On the Hodgdon website it says "It [H4895] had its origin in the 30-06 as a military powder"

 

You probably know already but as well as in your loading books you can get Hodgdon data here:

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

and Vihtavuori data here:

http://www.lapua.com/en/products/reloading/vihtavuori-reloading-data/relodata/5

 

I can't recommend any deer/boar bullets it's not my field.

 

Hope that helps

Henry

[kent]

If the 30-06 is a just for deer rifle, which you use occasionally then you will find it cheaper to just buy better factory to gain the accuracy you are looking for. Depends on your round count if you save money or not. Do not despise the accuracy of factory ammo in calibres like 30-06 it can be rather good if you don't just buy the cheapest. If you take the loading route 165 Nosler partitions will make a fine choice on terminals, though something like a Sierra gameking / prohunter will be cheaper and shoot very well indeed without sacrificing much in terminals.

Bullet prices are ridiculous at present £30 for a box of 100 is something we should all resist as you can bet they wont come down again if the buyers put up with it!

[swatty]

I know what your saying about the price midway have the partions at £39 per 50 but the price of some federal factory 180 grainers I bought for boar were £50 a box I'm open to other options as regards bullets ill look into the game kings etc the 06 will be my go to rifle as I mainly stalk so I want to get it shooting the best i can . As for the 22.250 ill probably put more bullets through it than the 06 and at longer range so getting it right is as important for a start ill probably stick with the bullets and powder I have and see what I can do and get used to reloading a bit before I start messing with the 06

[kent]

I know what your saying about the price midway have the partions at £39 per 50 but the price of some federal factory 180 grainers I bought for boar were £50 a box I'm open to other options as regards bullets ill look into the game kings etc the 06 will be my go to rifle as I mainly stalk so I want to get it shooting the best i can . As for the 22.250 ill probably put more bullets through it than the 06 and at longer range so getting it right is as important for a start ill probably stick with the bullets and powder I have and see what I can do and get used to reloading a bit before I start messing with the 06

 

the Noslers are a cracking choice but to be fair are only worthwhile if your after big quarry per calibre. 30-06 will ruin any red stags day with more normal cup and core hunting bullets. At up to 200yds its quite difficult to produce a hand loaded deer hunting load in the well trodden ground of the 30-06 that SIGNIFICANTLY makes any tangible difference on deer in terms of accuracy. That does not mean all decent factory ammo will suit your gun you will need to select the stuff it really likes. Taking into account consumables and brass life your looking at over a quid a pop with hand loads in a 30-06 at present BEFORE you take into account the cost of tooling. Worthwhile thing to do as a pastime however not massively worthwhile fanatically until your annual round count is well up in the hundreds. Still go for it as another shooting experience but don't listen to all the "half the cost" tales, for one thing you will shoot more than twice as much testing

[swatty]

I have to agree but cost isn't really a factor I'm more interested in getting better accuracy , not that I have tried many different factory rounds as availability local to me is slim to say the least if I can find since load that will level red stags and shoot a inch or better. Then that will do for me also I'm looking for a load that won't pop roe which is what has happened with two of the four roe I've shot in the last couple of weeks , more gun less room for error which is opposite to what I would think . Also I can see myself getting tied up with the reloading job and it becoming another hobby

[kent]

I have to agree but cost isn't really a factor I'm more interested in getting better accuracy , not that I have tried many different factory rounds as availability local to me is slim to say the least if I can find since load that will level red stags and shoot a inch or better. Then that will do for me also I'm looking for a load that won't pop roe which is what has happened with two of the four roe I've shot in the last couple of weeks , more gun less room for error which is opposite to what I would think . Also I can see myself getting tied up with the reloading job and it becoming another hobby

 

I have yet to own any centrefire rifle that wont do 1" at 100 yards with good factory. 7mm and 30 cal bullets often "pop" Roe - if by that you mean suck the guts through the diaphragm, not sure re-loading will help short of reducing the kinetic energy below that which is practical in the 06 (perhaps it is but I bet the 22-250 will work sweet you being in Scottyland). Hey its a rewarding hobby in its own right though don't let me put you off, just pointing out the facts a lot of BS is often spouted about hand loads superior accuracy - fair enough at extended range or when quarter MOA matters BUT 1" at 100 2" at 200? without sounding boast full I expect that

[swatty]

I'm not put off the more I read watch etc listen to other peoes views the more I'm looking forward to getting going ( been waiting over a wk for the rest of the gear I need from midway ) I've splashed out again and bought a leupold vx 111 6.5*20*50 to sit on the 22.250. Being as the 22 already shoots inch with factory what sort if accuracy can I realistically look to get from hand loading and shooting a factory rifle , I'm not looking to get daft ranges yet but it would be nice to deal with carions out to 300 where they think there safe ill be perfectly happy to achieve good inch with the 3006 as its a stalking rifle so not so worried about that reloading will just be a hobby in that cal but I'd like to get the very best out if the 22 thanks again for your advice

[sonic]

Realistically I'd think you could half that to 1/2" @ 100 or better depends on a few things coming together.

My personal experience was going from about an inch worse with some factory loads (105's in the 243) to half inch all day with various reloads. Best was nearer 1/4" from 58 vmax with N140 can't remember exact load. Not bad for an old BSA even well past its best it'll still do 1/2 to 3/4 inch.

[kent]

I'm not put off the more I read watch etc listen to other peoes views the more I'm looking forward to getting going ( been waiting over a wk for the rest of the gear I need from midway ) I've splashed out again and bought a leupold vx 111 6.5*20*50 to sit on the 22.250. Being as the 22 already shoots inch with factory what sort if accuracy can I realistically look to get from hand loading and shooting a factory rifle , I'm not looking to get daft ranges yet but it would be nice to deal with carions out to 300 where they think there safe ill be perfectly happy to achieve good inch with the 3006 as its a stalking rifle so not so worried about that reloading will just be a hobby in that cal but I'd like to get the very best out if the 22 thanks again for your advice

 

There is no way to predict what you will get, I have a rifle that will shoot as good with premium factory as it does with hand loads up to about 300 yds. There are bullets it likes more there are loads it likes more in both home and factory. At more distant ranges than the 300 you mention (this range is very dependant on calibre 22-250, .243 etc tends to about there but .22 Hornet is and should be expected closer, win mag etc further?) then the extra checks made while assembling handloads the prep and the marriage of the powder, bullet and brass count for far more.

I changed my view a few years ago when I lost the area to re-load while building for a period in time, I should have argued the case for handloads doing half of factory 5 or 6 yrs ago. What is important is forming a benchmark of the best stds that can be achieved with factory and recording it and measure your handloads against this.

[sonic]

I was perhaps generalising. halving factory

 

I agree that premium loads can shoot as well or in some cases better than home loads depending on how they're loaded. And having a bench mark as something to work to and hopefully improve on is good practice. This also applies before any work to "improve" a factory rifle but I digress. The only downside is cost premium loads tend to have premium price. I can't load a better deer load than I can buy PPU for. But Foxing loads are a lot cheaper (so I shoot more). in my experience anyway.

Shooting a variety of factory can also take some of the guesswork out of choosing your components for home loads. You can find what make/weight of bullet your rifle likes. You can then find out bullet powder (not all are available) etc then fine tune.

[swatty]

As for factory I just got rid of my 243 which I must of tried nearly every factory round I could get my hands on the one that shot best was no good for deer bring a ballistic tip ( I tried not nice ) in the end i settled on sako ammo which it liked but not really the accuracy I would of liked but was very affective on all the deer i shot due to the orice of 3006 factory I was hoping to cut out this process of box upon box and hopefully get a good result fajrly fast with my home loads

[kent]

As for factory I just got rid of my 243 which I must of tried nearly every factory round I could get my hands on the one that shot best was no good for deer bring a ballistic tip ( I tried not nice ) in the end i settled on sako ammo which it liked but not really the accuracy I would of liked but was very affective on all the deer i shot due to the orice of 3006 factory I was hoping to cut out this process of box upon box and hopefully get a good result fajrly fast with my home loads

 

I will guess you were testing 100 grn deer bullets for group sizes against something like a 70 grn Nosler bt? .243 win factory guns will almost always shoot best accuracy with the mid range bullet weights. Sometimes you might need a more objective view on assessing what is worthwhile. That is not to say 100 grn bullets wont shoot exceedingly well, one of the advantages of experimenting with hand loads. 1" rather than 1/2" wont kill more deer though

[sonic]

For factory ammo in my 243 for deer I found PPU hard to beat. under an inch at 100 yds and cheaper than loading my own. mid weight bullets do better I had some 80gn Sierra soft points that were just under half inch but supply was a problem. The thing is you can be lucky (58 vmax and N140 worked a treat) and find "THE" load with your first batch. Or three or four powder bullet combo's later be still scratching your head.

If you break the cost down I'll use my .243 as an example.

brass 6p/firing

powder 23p/40gn load

primer CCI 200 5p

bullet 87 vmax 26p

So 60p a load

 

PPU are about 55p each

 

My previous method load 5 each from 10% under max in 1% increments so 50 rounds. Shoot three round groups. So firing 30 or a few more (the other two are to fire for any pulled shot) out of my £30 worth I've fired £18. Multiply that by repeat tests for other powders etc the cost soon stacks up. By picking a few different factory loads ballistic tip soft point etc you're finding out type and weight of bullet you rifle likes. This will save money and time in the long run.

The added bonus is when you do find that load there's a satisfaction from it being your home load. Similar to catching trout on flies you tied.

[kent]

For factory ammo in my 243 for deer I found PPU hard to beat. under an inch at 100 yds and cheaper than loading my own. mid weight bullets do better I had some 80gn Sierra soft points that were just under half inch but supply was a problem. The thing is you can be lucky (58 vmax and N140 worked a treat) and find "THE" load with your first batch. Or three or four powder bullet combo's later be still scratching your head.

If you break the cost down I'll use my .243 as an example.

brass 6p/firing

powder 23p/40gn load

primer CCI 200 5p

bullet 87 vmax 26p

So 60p a load

 

PPU are about 55p each

 

My previous method load 5 each from 10% under max in 1% increments so 50 rounds. Shoot three round groups. So firing 30 or a few more (the other two are to fire for any pulled shot) out of my £30 worth I've fired £18. Multiply that by repeat tests for other powders etc the cost soon stacks up. By picking a few different factory loads ballistic tip soft point etc you're finding out type and weight of bullet you rifle likes. This will save money and time in the long run.

The added bonus is when you do find that load there's a satisfaction from it being your home load. Similar to catching trout on flies you tied.

 

I should say check out latest prices looking at £35 for 100 for many bullets at present and £60-£70 for brass, 30-06 and the likes? 120 rounds per pound of powder? and that's knocking £35! We need to consider the changes in ammo qualities and prices constantly, its a bit of a shocker- way over inflation!

[sonic]

the vmax were bought a month or two back for £26/100, powder was £40/ pound primer price was from I think a current price list. brass Lapua 243 at £60/100 on the shelf when I got the bullets. 30 06 will of course cost more.

I did browse the price list for factory ammo all I can say is at least Dick Turpin wore a mask.

[gbal]

the vmax were bought a month or two back for £26/100, powder was £40/ pound primer price was from I think a current price list. brass Lapua 243 at £60/100 on the shelf when I got the bullets. 30 06 will of course cost more.

I did browse the price list for factory ammo all I can say is at least Dick Turpin wore a mask.

Dick was a hand-loader,never had brass problems.

Gbal

[Gandy]

I have a 30.06 for deer did it a really easy rifle to reload for I've settled on 165grn gamekings and find its fine even on roe and generally causes less meat damage to a carcass than a .243.

 

PM me if you want further details or if you're nearby pop up and we an sort some loads out.

[kent]

I have a 30.06 for deer did it a really easy rifle to reload for I've settled on 165grn gamekings and find its fine even on roe and generally causes less meat damage to a carcass than a .243.

 

PM me if you want further details or if you're nearby pop up and we an sort some loads out.

Very strange but depends on which bullets you chose in the .243. Is that a guess at .243 carcass damage I personally must have killed a few hundred with the 100 grn pro hunter and would describe its performance on roe as near perfect. This is basically a flat base version of the gameking. Shot with 7mm and .30 cal gamekings from a 7-08 and .308 I had issues with excess kinetic energy on Roe.

The .243 gets its reputation for excessive meat damage from 1. varmint bullets 2. wrong bullet choice on big stags etc. you really need a partision type on these. 3. Slow handloads tumbling at low impact speeds 4. poor quality unpredictable results from cheap bullets in factory (mainly a thing of the past, most now use premium specialist hunting bullets these days)

 

6mm is about perfect on Roe, 30 cal about perfect on big reds. Both can do either job just not as good at respective size slots as regards carcass destruction / contamination IMO

[swatty]

Thanks gandy I carnt seem to be able to pm for some reason ill key everyone know how I'm getting on I've made up my first rounds for the 22.250 started with hornadys 55 grain vmax the old ones no boat tail powder h380 started at 38 grains and I've gone up in .5 grains at a time to 40 .5 max is 41 but I carnt get them to seat at that so I've stayed at 40.5 . The problems I've come across so far are 1 I got lee collet dies with all the gear I got as a job lot and they didn't want to neck tension the cases enough 2 was the fact that my max load won't seat apart from that things seam to have gone ok but I'm yet to try and rounds yet so fingers crossed . I have just prepped some 3006 cases and I've bought a box of 150 grain sierra gamekings just to try as they were cheap and the only thinks my local dealer had so ill try a few

[swatty]

Bit of a update on how my hand loading is going I inherited a tub of hodgson h380 and a tub of h4895 so starting out I loaded from 6% below max to max load with the 380 five of each and did the same with the 4895 but only to from 32 grains to 34 as I'd ran out of usable brass . So Sunday saw me out to see how my first loads shot I loaded in .5 grain increments with five rounds of each to see what happened well the 380 shot at best inch groups at worst three inch and I performed best with lower powder measures but the 4895 shot ragged holes with five shots with 34 grains and that was the max load I'd got to . So Sunday saw me knock up a few more as I knew they were shooting inch high so I had no need to re zero etc . Last night I had a look out for Charlie to see what was about I found a vixen asleep under a tree at about 120 yards and that's we're she will spend the rest of her days as the vmax straight between the eyes put pay to her for good so I now have my first kill with my own ammo and it seamed just that but more satisfying than normal thanks for everyone's help Brian ps excuse the grammar