Carbon cleaning

[ds1]

How do you remove carbon when cleaning your barrel?

 

I find I have very little copper fouling, but carbon is a bitch.

 

Observation - not the same thing but principle may or may not apply - on a semi auto rifle, with short gas piston I get two types of carbon fouling - one on the surface that can be wiped off with a cloth and the other on the face of the piston face, I have tried every chemical I have to get rid of this, Butches, Hoppes powder solvent, Forrest, Shooters Choice extreme and others. It either always needs a good brass brushing or ultrasonic cleaning.

 

So what type of carbon foulinmg are we getting in rifle barrels and how is it removed. I believe the first few patches down a barrel only get rid of the surface stuff. I also find after a barrel shows clean with a patch if I put a clean brass brush down it the next patch will be black to some extent.

 

Anyone have the answer.

 

David.

[Redfox]

There are a number of cleaners sold for carbon removal, including brake cleaner for cars which is cheaper than the gun branded stuff, there is the KG1 which gets a good write up etc. I have to send to the sportsmans to get some to try as no one near me has it, but I will do and report back.

I have a Rem 11-87 and the gas piston and ring assy quickly carbon up and the usual cleaners as you say do absolutely nothing.

Bit about it here http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm

Redfox

[Guest varmartin]

I use Kroil from Sinclairs...not had to buy any in a while so dont know if they still post it ??

 

I mix Kroil with Butches and use that .

 

I also use Carb cleaner as Redfox suggests... ( Or brake cleaner ) Not sure if it is the exact same thing though !

 

I have got both and used both ...seems to work ok

 

I dont have a bore scope..so how would I know for sure ?....... Semi auto ?/ what are they

 

Martin

[ds1]

Thanks Redfox and Martin,

 

A stop at the car shop it is then for brake and carb cleaner. I will give it a go and see how it does on the gas pistons.

 

Thanks,

 

David.

[Finman]

Thanks Redfox and Martin,

 

A stop at the car shop it is then for brake and carb cleaner. I will give it a go and see how it does on the gas pistons.

 

Thanks,

 

David.

 

 

Hi chaps,

 

I have had the same trouble with the gas piston carbon fouling in my AL391. I have had the most pleasant surprise though with a method I developed out of sheer frustration one day and then I managed to get the fouling all out, with the easiest of ways:

 

a) wipe the 'easy loose stuff' out with a oily rag

put the piston in a small container and spray it with WD40 till it almost swims in it

c) leave it for 20 or so minutes (I usually do this first and then get on with cleaning the rest of the gun. By the time I am finished with barrell, chokes etc, i pick up the piston from the WD40)

d) wipe the carbon off with a soft dry cloth and pick the corners (if your piston has any) with a patch forced with a toothpick or similar (the Starbucks cup stirrers work well for me, as they are not at all endagering scratching the surface).

 

I have done this after 500 shots or so in clays and pigeons, when the piston came out blacker than the darkest night... Yet, it is now as clean as the day I bought the gun.

 

good luck

 

Finman

[Jinks]

I used to have a problem with carbon on the outside of my stainless tikka barrel due to using a lightweight pes sound moderator, tried wd40, carbon fouling cleaners, brake cleaner, carb cleaner, etc...etc, and I'd be scrubbing for ages to get it clean, until I bought some acid free wheel cleaner from my local motor factors to use on my car wheels. It removes baked on brake dust without scrubbing. I tried a bit on the barrel wiping it on with a cloth and the carbon was removed instantly!!!! And it has no effect on the barrel finish. It is made by Cartec and comes in a 5ltr container. Haven't tried it on my 11-87 yet.....

 

Cheers, Jinks.

[Guest varmartin]

I used to own a Beretta A303 and that one carbon up after a couple hundred rounds.

 

I used to strip it down and de-coke the piston in hot soapy water and give it a light scrub with the wife's tooth brush..

 

That did the trick....did not have a fancy chemicals in them days.

 

Martin

[Redfox]

Ds1 how did you get on with the carbon removing?

Redfox

[ds1]

Hi Redfox,

 

The main goal is to find a way to remove carbon from the barrel without bronze brushing it to death - I have a 308 barrel that seems to have quite a lot in - a couple of hundred passes with a bronze brush and it feels much better but still some black on the patches.

 

I would like to solve this problem on the 308 before the 338 starts carbon collecting - they are known to build up carbon about 10" down the tube.

 

The vz 58 and HKP7 gas pistons are just easy to see what works and what does not.

 

So far I have tried WD40, soaking the pistons for an hour or so, no joy.

 

The local garrage has various kinds of wheel cleaner (alloy and steel) and engine cleaner, but no carb cleaner or brake cleaner. I have not tried these - I`m scared to put it down a barrel.

 

When I get to town I will try to find something like carb cleaner next I think.

 

How did the KG1 work?

 

Thanks for asking,

 

David.

[Redfox]

David

still waiting I rang sportsmans today and they said it is on its way, so fingers crossed.

I notice in the make it yourself, that some use ethylene glycol mixed with something else, well E G is good old antifreeze and readily available. I must look back at the ffrogspad site and see what the formula is, it certainly is not agressive on steel, dont know about blueing without a test, but certainly worth a try. The 11-87 is polished steel in the gas mechanism so I could try it there and see what happens without risk.

Redfox

[Stonewall]

Try using "Marvel Mystery Oil " to clean actions and barrels-it works extremely well on carbon deposits. I use Shooters Choice mixed with mystery oil (2/1 mix) to clean barrels and put 3 drops on a VFG felt thru the barrel before shooting.

 

http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/index.php/site/products/

 

I have used J.B.'s with a P.H. style jag every 100 rounds to clean carbon build up in the throat but now prefer Iosso bore cleaner . Do a search on Benchrest .com for Speedy's cleaning system. You use this on a patch wrapped arround a nylon brush to short stroke the throat area.

http://www.iosso.com/MivaStore/graphics/00...ore-cleaner.jpg

 

http://www.iosso.com/MivaStore/merchant.mv...ode=GunCleaning

 

Wipe out seems to work on carbon if you give it a few shots. http://www.sharpshootr.com/wipeout.htm

 

 

Now the same company has Carb-out for cleaning carbon. From what I hear this works quite well.

http://www.sharpshootr.com/carbout.htm

 

Glenn

[David]

I have been using the KG range for years. It's the best I have found in 41 years of shooting. KG1 for Carbon, KG12 for Copper Removal and KG2 Bore Polish.

 

Does what it says on the bottle!!

 

David.

[Guest varmartin]

Hi David..

 

What is you technique with the KG range.?

 

I have the KG12 and KG2. ( 12 is currently on loan to a friend to evaluate )

 

Don`t get on with the 12 as its water based, but the 2 is very good and cleans up the barrel to a nice smooth finish.

 

I also us the JB products but have been cutting back of late to see how accuracy is effected,

[Finman]

Just a quick question Martin: do you use KG2 instead of any other Carbon removing fluid? I have it also but only used it once so far in my .204, for a 'bore conditioning' effect. I seem to recall that the instructions are to use it in a clean bore, that's all.

 

best wishes,

 

Finman

 

PS: my technique is to soak a patch, pass it through (to get as much of the crud out- I also use carb cleaner as a first patch) and then soak another, pass it, and leave it for 5-10 minutes. Depending on the degree of fouling (i.e. how many rounds I put through before cleaning) I then brush before patching with clean patches, soaked with KG3, till I get a clean patch. Use the same for both KG1 and KG12. Looking through my bore with a Hawkey borescope (through my 6mmBR barrel) showed no traces of either carbon or copper with this technique.

[David]

My cleaning regime is as follows:

 

Pass a couple of dry patches through the barrel to take out the big stuff. I then put a couple of patches soaked in KG1 through, then dry patches till they come out clean. I then run patches soaked in KG12 and let it soak. Duration of soak will depend on my schedule. Fifteen minutes to overnight. I then run a couple of clean patches through and then spray inside the bore with brake and clutch cleaning fluid (today's replacement for carbon tech) and dry patches till they come out clean. I then put some KG2 on a patch and run it through the bore. Clean patches till it is clean and then repeat. Final clean out is with brake and clutch cleaner till the patches come out clean. Then a clean patch with Three in One clear oil. If the patch comes out clean I do one more pass with oil and if that is clean also, the job is done.

 

A bit of a chore, especially if you have fired three or four different rifles on a range session but it works. No carbon and no copper.

 

David.

[Guest varmartin]

Just a quick question Martin: do you use KG2 instead of any other Carbon removing fluid? I have it also but only used it once so far in my .204, for a 'bore conditioning' effect. I seem to recall that the instructions are to use it in a clean bore, that's all.

 

best wishes,

 

Finman

 

PS: my technique is to soak a patch, pass it through (to get as much of the crud out- I also use carb cleaner as a first patch) and then soak another, pass it, and leave it for 5-10 minutes. Depending on the degree of fouling (i.e. how many rounds I put through before cleaning) I then brush before patching with clean patches, soaked with KG3, till I get a clean patch. Use the same for both KG1 and KG12. Looking through my bore with a Hawkey borescope (through my 6mmBR barrel) showed no traces of either carbon or copper with this technique.

 

I use it on the odd occasion only, but as you said only to condition the bore to help slow fouling build up / ease removal.

 

I use Butches most of the time but I also use shooters choice extra strength when I feel there is a bit of stubborn copper.

 

I always combine my copper removal cleaning with carbon removal using `Kroil`

 

To be honest I dont think I have seen any copper on my patches in either of my rifles for some time.

 

Sako 75 VLS in .223 and a Kreiger 6BR