.223 Rem Load Development Advice

[Norfresh]

Hi I am shooting many years but have only recently decided to get into reloading and I am going to start with my .223. The rifle is a Remington Vssf ii 26" 1:12 twist and I have always used factory Hornady 55gr Vmax ammo which is hitting an average velocity of 3131 fps.

 

From the research I have done I decided to start loading with the following components...

 

Once fired hornady brass, CCI small rifle primers, Viht N133 and 53 grain Vmax. I have all my brass neck sized and everything ready for charging.

 

My Hornady 8th Edition Manual gives the following load data for the mention combination:

 

20.6 gr @ 2900 fps (starting load)

21.4 gr @ 3000 fps

22.2 gr @ 3100 fps

23.0 gr @ 3200 fps (maximum load)

 

I am going to be developing a load by shooting groups of different charges, my question is for charge would you start with? What increments you would go up in? and how far up would you bother to load?

 

Thanks

[gbal]

Hi I am shooting many years but have only recently decided to get into reloading and I am going to start with my .223. The rifle is a Remington Vssf ii 26" 1:12 twist and I have always used factory Hornady 55gr Vmax ammo which is hitting an average velocity of 3131 fps.

 

From the research I have done I decided to start loading with the following components...

 

Once fired hornady brass, CCI small rifle primers, Viht N133 and 53 grain Vmax. I have all my brass neck sized and everything ready for charging.

 

My Hornady 8th Edition Manual gives the following load data for the mention combination:

 

20.6 gr @ 2900 fps (starting load)

21.4 gr @ 3000 fps

22.2 gr @ 3100 fps

23.0 gr @ 3200 fps (maximum load)

 

I am going to be developing a load by shooting groups of different charges, my question is for charge would you start with? What increments you would go up in? and how far up would you bother to load?

 

 

Thanks

 

Since you have factory comparison why not start about 22.2 and work up in .2 or .3 toward max looking at group size for a sweet

Spot and of course pressure signs.you might not want to venture much beyond max ask what another 50 fps will actually mean. More barrel wear for sure -but if you have good group,already- that will probably be the place to be.Do three cartridges in raj of the ladder steps,go ack and load a few more at the bet weight.Don' endlessly chase the elusive perfect group - it may not exist.And you just waste time and money in pursuit.The holy grail is enjoyment -much as I like BR groups,they are just not needed to knock down military targets.Or most vermin etc.

Adverse conditions-wind-will cause some havoc anyhow,way beyond a Few decimal moa places.Don' t load develop except in very good conditions.Enjoy the shooting.

 

Gbal

S

[DaveT]

I have not checked your powder selection and the relevant loads from the book BUT as a general principle I look to start about mid-point in the book powder charge range and for a moderate sized case (308 Win, 260 Rem etc) go up in .5 grain increments until I get to the upper quarter of the book range when I start to drop back to .3 and .2 grain increments.

 

For smaller cartridges it would be worth using correspondingly smaller increments straight away.

 

There is also the major variable of whether you are loading to SAAMI / CIP recommended max cartridge lengths or longer than standard when you can expect to be able to load closer to or even over max without excessive pressure conditions arising..... please do NOT take this as an encouragement to load over max especially if you have just started.

 

The only SAFE advice is to start conservatively (in my book thats mid-range) and don't rush to get to maximum.... work up slowly in small increments looking for ANY pressure signs and consider accuracy before velocity (within what is a reasonable expectation for your chosen cartridge).

 

NEVER jump in greater than .5 increments even at mid-range loads.... you might miss an accuracy node..... you might get a nasty reaction from your gun.

[gbal]

I have not checked your powder selection and the relevant loads from the book BUT as a general principle I look to start about mid-point in the book powder charge range and for a moderate sized case (308 Win, 260 Rem etc) go up in .5 grain increments until I get to the upper quarter of the book range when I start to drop back to .3 and .2 grain increments.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For smaller cartridges it would be worth using correspondingly smaller increments straight away.

 

There is also the major variable of whether you are loading to SAAMI / CIP recommended max cartridge lengths or longer than standard when you can expect to be able to load closer to or even over max without excessive pressure conditions arising..... please do NOT take this as an encouragement to load over max especially if you have just started.

 

The only SAFE advice is to start conservatively (in my book thats mid-range) and don't rush to get to maximum.... work up slowly in small increments looking for ANY pressure signs and consider accuracy before velocity (within what is a reasonable expectation for your chosen cartridge).

 

NEVER jump in greater than .5 increments even at mid-range loads.... you might miss an accuracy node..... you might get a nasty reaction from your gun.

 

Good advice,Dave

You want accuracy,not max velocity.despite what some aficionados seem to think.If you ever get to competitive long range shooting,with a lot of experience,you may begin to explore those regions.But to the get so egood ballistics tables and ask if a couple finches more drop/drift will make a difference to you- given you have to make corrections anyhow.?......14 clicks is how more inconvenient than 11 clicks.? As we all misjudge the wind anyhow,both will probably be in error a bit!,

Gbal

[DaveT]

Agreed! My wind reading definitely needs work!

[gbal]

Agreed! My wind reading definitely needs work!

Agreed! My wind reading definitely needs work!

Agreed! My wind reading definitely needs work!

Agreed! My wind reading definitely needs work!

Agreed! My wind reading definitely needs work!

Agreed! My wind reading definitely needs work!

 

Dave,

Far and away the major factor- it just can't be bought!Unlike velocity,or BC etc.I just wish someone had hammered the point when I was starting,and thought a better rifle etc would solve all evils.Said better gear is of course nice to have and isn't "go fast stripes" but the best scope in the wod-whatever it is-won' t compensate for a wind reading error.Or any of the other factors that make your .25 group increase to several inches at distance.If someone had just told me .25 at 100 yards just will not be 1inch at 400from the start,I might have focused more on all the factors!

Gbl

 

 

 

 

[kent]

Hi I am shooting many years but have only recently decided to get into reloading and I am going to start with my .223. The rifle is a Remington Vssf ii 26" 1:12 twist and I have always used factory Hornady 55gr Vmax ammo which is hitting an average velocity of 3131 fps.

 

From the research I have done I decided to start loading with the following components...

 

Once fired hornady brass, CCI small rifle primers, Viht N133 and 53 grain Vmax. I have all my brass neck sized and everything ready for charging.

 

My Hornady 8th Edition Manual gives the following load data for the mention combination:

 

20.6 gr @ 2900 fps (starting load)

21.4 gr @ 3000 fps

22.2 gr @ 3100 fps

23.0 gr @ 3200 fps (maximum load)

 

I am going to be developing a load by shooting groups of different charges, my question is for charge would you start with? What increments you would go up in? and how far up would you bother to load?

 

Thanks

Reduce 10% from the max, don't get close to the rifling and don't exceed that max till your far more in touch with hand loading - its always possible the max might not be safe in your gun go up in 0.2 grain increments in smaller cases like .223. Now I do personally tend to chase the limits but always come down from it, hot conditions or errors can dramatically increase pressure and I want to know how close I am running. Its easy to miss pressure sign in the beginning so get help, most loading errors I have seen are in basic round construction not in powder charge and the books don't tend to make that clear enough

[tony]

I have not checked your powder selection and the relevant loads from the book BUT as a general principle I look to start about mid-point in the book powder charge range and for a moderate sized case (308 Win, 260 Rem etc) go up in .5 grain increments until I get to the upper quarter of the book range when I start to drop back to .3 and .2 grain increments.

 

For smaller cartridges it would be worth using correspondingly smaller increments straight away.

 

There is also the major variable of whether you are loading to SAAMI / CIP recommended max cartridge lengths or longer than standard when you can expect to be able to load closer to or even over max without excessive pressure conditions arising..... please do NOT take this as an encouragement to load over max especially if you have just started.

 

The only SAFE advice is to start conservatively (in my book thats mid-range) and don't rush to get to maximum.... work up slowly in small increments looking for ANY pressure signs and consider accuracy before velocity (within what is a reasonable expectation for your chosen cartridge).

 

NEVER jump in greater than .5 increments even at mid-range loads.... you might miss an accuracy node..... you might get a nasty reaction from your gun.

Well said Dave, I totally agree.

[Norfresh]

Thanks for the advice lads all taken on board So I am thinking of doing the following loads, 3 rounds of each:

 

22.2

22.4

22.6

22.8

23.0 (max load)

23.2

 

What do ye think of that? When I am testing I will have an experienced reloader with me so we will bw able to spot pressure signs. Should I bother loading up the 23.2 grain load??

 

For seating depth I was planning on going with the C.O.L. stated in the book which is 2.240"

[DaveT]

Norfresh

 

3 rounds not enough except to check for pressures.

 

You really need an absolute minimum of 5 rounds to see if you are getting decent grouping from a given load. (My view)

 

Personally I would load a few at .2 or so below what you mention above to give you an absolutely ' no pressures' comparison fired round....some guns can give primer cratering at very safe loads if the firing pin hole is a little too large for instance.

 

Just for completeness.....Never load BELOW book minimum as it has , apparently, been known to cause detonation of the powder rather than the desired 'slow' burn....dangerous as overloading.

[minkstone]

Norfresh, with n-133, using 53gr v-max/rem 7 1/2 primer/remington brass, my load was 25.4grs. This is just over the max in the Nosler manual, however i worked the load up slowly in 2 tenths increments. The accuracy was excellent with 4 shots slightly enlarging one hole,...this load was repeated with the same accuracy and with absolutely NO pressure signs in MY rifle. (mv-not known)

 

A good friend of mine Alan (sirslotsalot) uses 25.6grs in his .223 with absolute stunning accuracy and also no pressure signs using the 53gr v-max. The velocity out of Alans rifle is a very consistent 3,450fps/22" barrel.

 

 

Like i say these loads were/are safe in our rifles.

 

Regards.

[onehole]

Have had quite a few 223 barrels over the years and worked up many loads with 133 and 50-52 heads,,,,,I usually ended up at an accuracy node in the 23,5 to 24.5 range,,,loads were begun at 22.5,,,,,have never gone any more than 24.5 as tiny groups were telling me that was far enough and primers were unstressed.Velocity was just the other side of 3300 at 24,5g.If your ever short of 133 and you can get some 130,,,,this powder is great too providing similar performance albeit with a lower powder weight.

I write this purely for information and your interest not for recommendation to start and stop where I have,,,,,,take care...Onehole.

[kent]

Multiple 3 shot groups will prove more in a sporter barrel than 5 from an over heated tube ( 3 from a sporter and 5 from a varmint has long been a sort of rule with many). I have one sporter that only shows its true worth with two shots from a cool barrel, still make it shoot three but you can always tell the last one!. 3x3 groups is 9 shots to me that equates to more than one 5 shot group, my personal thoughts are find the best two or three loads then load and shoot a higher still round count side by side and at the maximum range you can. Singling out the good bad and ugly out of one group is unlikely to find a cracking load, many times I have shot a really great single group with a load only to find it a bit of a flop long term. 100 yds testing means nothing unless you only intend to shoot at such ranges, any decent constructed round will shoot ok at 100.

 

why bother loading over the max just yet? Pressure will rise on a hot day anyhow and its early days yet another 50 fps aint going to gain you a lot in its own find a node under the book max for now to my mind

[Tony.H]

i shoot 55gr noslers with vit n133, 24.6gr @3265 fps and no pressure signs at all, thats out of a 22" 1:8 twist t3, pressure starts to show @ 25.4gr...

 

 

tony

[forbie]

So a search on the net for the OCW method of finding the most accurate loads in your rifle. Worked a treat in my 223 and the site is very informative too.