Bedding

[shaun]

I have a mate who has a remmy 700 vssf2 in the standard HS precision stock, which has a alliminum bedding block as standard. Can the action be bedded in this stock and would it make much of a difference to accuracy over the ally block?

 

Cheers

Shaun

[Ronin]

Yes aluminum V block stock such as the HS Precision, Bell and Carlson and AICS can be skim bedded, providing the upper surfaces of the V Block are rough sanded so thye nbedding compound has a key to adhere to.

 

This is only the one time I would do a "Skim bedding" job

 

 

The AICS stocks respond well to this treatment, so I see no reason why other similar stocks wouldnt either.

[shaun]

When you say skim bedding do you mean a couple of mm of bedding compound? And is there a specific compound that will work better on the alluminum?

[hellraiser]

Hi i rang sporting services about bedding my aics stock and i was told not bother as i would not gain anything in the field my buddy bedded his and when we put them together his barrel was a few mm to one side it shot but no better than mine i would be more inclined to look at the torque of the screws in the action and a decent trigger imo

[Ronin]

Yes a few mm of compound to ensure the action contact is 100%

 

 

Ive done several AICS over the years, all have improved the repeatable accuracy of the rifles concerned.

[Danpd]

Saw these two vids the other day, very good examples of why bedding is important in Aics style stocks.

 

 

 

[baldie]

Skim bedding is as much use as tits on a fish.

 

Unless you remove the two high spots of aluminium either side in the bedding block, bedding it will make no difference whatsoever.

 

Take an AICS stocked rifle, and holding it horizontally, undo the front stock screw and watch the barrelled action rise. I did this for a customer only yesterday, and it moved over 1/4".

 

That action was badly stressed.

 

Any aluminium bedding block made in XYZ is never going to fit a mass produced action made in another xyz place. They are always going to be different. The only way to ensure a complete mirror image in the stock, is to bed it .

 

Its the difference between a visible 1/4" lift and less than 0.005" movment when a dial guage is applied to the barrel, and the screw slackened.

 

There is only one way to bed an aluminium bedding block...and thats properly. Removal of AT LEAST 3mm of the block, in its entireity is a must, then this is replaced with devcon/marine tex. The only part of the original block showing should be pillars left over from milling.

 

Aluminium stocks and bedding blocks need bedding more than a fibreglass one does, as they wont bend to fit an action, but rather stress it.

 

Bedding done correctly, will ALWAYS improve any rifle, regardless of its calibre.

 

I will not skim bed...it does not address the problem.

[dannywayoflife]

Great write up there Dave. Very well explained for laymen like myself.

[Ronin]

Ronny

 

I dont count my self as a gunsmith, more of an interested amateur.

 

However,if you read my short post (written at midnight), I do agree with Baldie a thin skim is no good, there needs to be a few mm of bedding compound to match the surface of the action.

 

 

Dave gave a more detailed reply, than I had the inclination to do thats all.

[gun nut]

Great vids Danpd, even a layman should be able to understand that!Surely this is an easy way of working out if you need a bedding job or not?

 

Mike

[Ronin]

The issue really is that when the action is under stress, its bowing / warping / not the shape the manufacturer intended.

 

This movement impacts on the relationship between the bolt lugs and the abutments and causes movement every time the trigger is pulled, due to the pressures involved in the firing cycle.

 

This consequently leads to inconsistent accuracy.

 

I'm not arguing that xyz rifle may be accurate at 300 mt rs, the problems arise farther out or when shooting, precision, small targets where the score or hit area has to be hit (rather than a 4" kill zone where anywhere near is ok)

 

Consistent, repeatable accuracy does not come from a rifle who's action is under any kind of stress at the action / stock interface.

 

 

Ill accept that hunting rifles dont necessarily need this to do the job.

 

But in my experience, if someone wants the best out of their rifle (and have no nagging doubts about the action moving in the stock under recoil, it moving because of the weather / humidity, or being stressed, the only solution is to have it properly bedded.

 

 

I recall a certain magazine once had a piece in it where a rifle builder did a series of tests using two rifles shot from a solid rest.

 

the barreled actions were fixed to the rest and shot for group (giving the best accuracy with no human interface)

 

the the same rifles were mounted in standard, composite, laminate, bedded, un-bedded V block and bedded V block stocks all shot from a machine rest but this time the rest held the stocks in place.

 

The rifles considered most accurate (or as close to best accuracy when not fixed to a solid rest) were the bedded composite and bedded V block.

 

The conclusion being that one extracts the best from a rifle by having it bedded properly.

 

 

This is also reflected by H Vaughns findings in Rifle Accuracy, The Facts - a book, written by Mr Vaughn, who conducted all kinds of experiments to see how various factors affected rifle accuracy.

 

Extremely good read by the way....

[baldie]

What the tikka gains over the Remmy in having small ports, it loses due to it being long action. Its not the action, but the barrel that makes the difference on a factory gun. Tikkas are better std barrels than Remmy,s by a country mile.

 

I do love Tikka,s myself. I,ve barrelled a 20" Archer in 6.5 x 47 on a T3 for myself only this morning.

 

If when you start to shoot long range all the pieces of the jigsaw have to be there Ronny. Whilst not knocking your 300 yard kills at all, a fox is a large target, even a rabbit too at that range. Most rifles out of the box are capable of that. If they will hold MOA, you will centre mass a bunny at 300 yards with one.

 

Double the range to 600 and then everything has to be just right to hit that same rabbit. Most factory guns are no longer capable , this is where you Pac-nor barrelled, sweet triggered, bedded rifle will give consistent results.

 

If all you need is a 300 yard deer/fox blatter, there is simply no need to ever buy anything else apart from a factory rifle.

 

All parts of a jigsaw. Anyone who has dealt with me will know i always recommend a top quality trigger before a bedding job, if money is tight. More results will be had from it. Bedding is one of the jobs done to get the very best from a gun.

[triggersqueezer]

i have had tikka rifles but and they have all shot well at short range but none even compare to my tikka 223 i own now.fully bedded is just one of the many things baldie did to it whilst working his magic and now for the first time ever i have a rifle that shoots better than i can.

[foxing2night]

Andy, Dave, very good replys , you both have hit the nail on the head so to speak,,,,

 

One thing that i found was that when i had my sako 6mm ppc bedded it got rid of the odd flyer,,

 

very accurate rifle made even better,,,

[gbal]

What the tikka gains over the Remmy in having small ports, it loses due to it being long action. Its not the action, but the barrel that makes the difference on a factory gun. Tikkas are better std barrels than Remmy,s by a country mile.

 

I do love Tikka,s myself. I,ve barrelled a 20" Archer in 6.5 x 47 on a T3 for myself only this morning.

 

If when you start to shoot long range all the pieces of the jigsaw have to be there Ronny. Whilst not knocking your 300 yard kills at all, a fox is a large target, even a rabbit too at that range. Most rifles out of the box are capable of that. If they will hold MOA, you will centre mass a bunny at 300 yards with one.

 

Double the range to 600 and then everything has to be just right to hit that same rabbit. Most factory guns are no longer capable , this is where you Pac-nor barrelled, sweet triggered, bedded rifle will give consistent results.

 

 

Agreed,and good to see it so clearly put.If you think you need a .2 grouping rifle for 200 yard foxing,you should be concerned not about how close your second shot will be,but why you need a second shot at all at the same fox.Most rifles are quite capable/effective at that sort of field shooting.Tikkas/sakos have generally been good ex factory,but the question is not really that 'my' tikka/whatever is a decent fox rifle,but rather what rifle would NOT be.And the second question is,what rifle that is NOT a properly engineered and customised one IS a consistent competitive longer range real precision/accuracy target rifle(assuming an appropriate cartridge in both contexts).The numbers for both questions are rather small.

Having a nice rifle,or 'better' than needed etc is another matter,and quite commendable,but also get a very good customised engineered bonnet on your 4x4 if you still want .2 groups shooting off it!

george

[shaun]

When you look down on the top of the action there is a gap right round it between it and the stock and looking at the marks on the aluminium the action doesn't come close to touching the pillars which you would think would make it warp. He also often gets an odd flyer in a group! All these things i thought would suggest it needs bedding????

[dannywayoflife]

What the tikka gains over the Remmy in having small ports, it loses due to it being long action. Its not the action, but the barrel that makes the difference on a factory gun. Tikkas are better std barrels than Remmy,s by a country mile.

 

I do love Tikka,s myself. I,ve barrelled a 20" Archer in 6.5 x 47 on a T3 for myself only this morning.

 

If when you start to shoot long range all the pieces of the jigsaw have to be there Ronny. Whilst not knocking your 300 yard kills at all, a fox is a large target, even a rabbit too at that range. Most rifles out of the box are capable of that. If they will hold MOA, you will centre mass a bunny at 300 yards with one.

 

Double the range to 600 and then everything has to be just right to hit that same rabbit. Most factory guns are no longer capable , this is where you Pac-nor barrelled, sweet triggered, bedded rifle will give consistent results.

 

If all you need is a 300 yard deer/fox blatter, there is simply no need to ever buy anything else apart from a factory rifle.

 

All parts of a jigsaw. Anyone who has dealt with me will know i always recommend a top quality trigger before a bedding job, if money is tight. More results will be had from it. Bedding is one of the jobs done to get the very best from a gun.

 

Is it a 6.5x47 fatboy Dave?

[baldie]

 

I,m the fatboy.....

 

No Danny. Its a T3 with a rem varmint profile archer, cut to 20" with a benny cooley brake. A new design of flute on the bolt, and my magazine system set into a Mac A3-5 which has light fill.

I,m going to top it with a lightweight scope, and use it for 3-600 yards practical rifle. The gun is light enough to throw about.

 

There,s a fatboy at proof though....

Pics in a week or two.

[dannywayoflife]

That fatboy has left a lasting impression on me Dave! I've just got my mits on a RCS2 chassis for my 223. I'm planning on fatboying that!

[Wiltshire Boy]

For what it's worth on the bedding front I had an interesting day today. Took in my .284 that Baldie built for me for some fettling work on the trigger. It's an RPA action and trigger that I supplied to BAldie and he built the rifle up for me. Anyway the work was done on the trigger by Jim Wills who is a very well respected smith in these parts and he made 2 comments (he's a quiet bloke).

 

1 He mentioned the bedding was the snuggest he'd ever seen and what an excellent job it was (well done the Baldmeister)

 

2 He wondered how I had managed to shoot 1/2 inch groups (3 shots touchingish) with the rifle given the front bolt holding the action to the stock had broken! I had had the hump cos I couldn't get 1 hole groups out of it hence the trigger work.

 

The answer without doubt must be the bedding job on it. When the bolt broke, I have no idea. what I do know is that I'd like to see an unbedded rifle be able to do that! For me that must translate into added accuracy.

 

So for me I would not own a rifle that I expected to shoot at extended range without a bedding job and a good one at that. Hence I shall be ordering what will be my 3rd rifle from Baldie as soon as funds allow.

 

All the best

 

Rich