mutley Posted February 7, 2011 Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 hi, does any one on here use a .243 on ''vermin'' or ''ground game'' as i've been told that essex police wouldn't allow .243 to be used on vermin when getting restrictions lifted on a variation on my .243. Just wondered what peoples experiences on.243/6mm for vermin were. Many thanks matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millwall Paul Posted February 7, 2011 Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 hi, does any one on here use a .243 on ''vermin'' or ''ground game'' as i've been told that essex police wouldn't allow .243 to be used on vermin when getting restrictions lifted on a variation on my .243. Just wondered what peoples experiences on.243/6mm for vermin were. Many thanks matt I'm with the Thames Valley and have just recieved my certificate back from renewal, they've given me an open ticket and have given me ground game and all legal vermin on my 6.5x55 and 30-06. I checked with my FEO and he said that it was correct, if I wanted too I could shoot bunnies and squirels with the 06. I might just have to give it a whirl to see the effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finman Posted February 7, 2011 Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 I'm with the Thames Valley and have just recieved my certificate back from renewal, they've given me an open ticket and have given me ground game and all legal vermin on my 6.5x55 and 30-06. I checked with my FEO and he said that it was correct, if I wanted too I could shoot bunnies and squirels with the 06. I might just have to give it a whirl to see the effects. Well, you're lucky...I asked for my 6mmBR to also include vermin, and was told 'we don't do that' ('we' being Staffordshire police). So there seems to be wide variation in the interpretation of the Home Office guidelines...I shouldn't complain really, I could live in Cheshire! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHPP Posted February 7, 2011 Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 Should be conditioned for any "lesser species" as well as the good reason (I assume fox and/or deer). Firearms licencing bods advised to do this as standard. Some known not to. I think it was a FELWEG meeting a couple of years ago where this was decided. Do the reading and hold your ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHPP Posted February 7, 2011 Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 Well, you're lucky...I asked for my 6mmBR to also include vermin, and was told 'we don't do that' ('we' being Staffordshire police). So there seems to be wide variation in the interpretation of the Home Office guidelines...I shouldn't complain really, I could live in Cheshire! I think you should complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutley Posted February 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 I think you should complain. where can i find a copy of these home office guidelines?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHPP Posted February 7, 2011 Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 http://www.basc.org.uk/en/departments/firearms/guidance-and-fact-sheets.cfm has a link to Firearms Law - Guidance to the Police (Home Office 2002) but that's out of date. Can't off the top of my head think where the lesser species decision is enshrined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHPP Posted February 7, 2011 Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 Whilst on the subject of the BASC one of their blokes is a member here. I'm sure he'll be able to offer some advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si-Snipe Posted February 7, 2011 Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 I have vermin on my 6.5x47. .243 should be no probs if you explain you need to take rabbits when out fox shooting and can't carry 2 guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrelsniffer Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 I have vermin on my 6.5x47. .243 should be no probs if you explain you need to take rabbits when out fox shooting and can't carry 2 guns. I explained that very quote above to cheshire..to get vermin/lawful quarry on my 223 they would not give it, so now i have to leave one rifle in the car...even though i said the area in question means the car will not be over looked and left for a long period..where there has been high rural crime for past few yrs. Tried BASC no joy they wont even contact cheshire for me so then didnt renew my BASC membership. Joined NGO and have had superb service from george wallace..who has been chatting to cheshire since may..still waiting fo outcome..but i aint holding my breath..Cheshire what a joke ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onehole Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Perhaps we are very lucky down here in Devon and Cornwall but from my experience and that of others if you show "good reason" then most things seem to be possible.What also helps but not a condition is perhaps to be a member of a club where there is justification for several different calibres and to ask for dual use for these "firearms".Back up your application with every reason you could possibly think of ,send in detailed and outlined aerial photos of the land on which you wish to use these calibres.Some "lays" of land or perhaps just large or inaccessable acreage would justify a larger calibre to be able to reach extended ranges where vermin are insitu and would prove difficult to get onto with a sub calibre.If you have an "open "ticket" you may well get invited to other land for which the use of a larger calibre firearm has been passed so again we have a good reason for another calibre,I could go on but do your best to paint the picture for them and stand your ground.On the negative side though if your permissions are small in size and have a restricted licence at the moment then you may not have a "good reason"Wish you luck,Onehole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny243 Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 interesting thread reference different forces, a chap near us has put in for his first firearms cert and was told by northants that he must be under guidance for 12 months although his friend whos thames vally has put in for the same with no conditions on it so he rang northants and asked if it was home office guidelines for the conditions put on him and they said yes, so he rang n.g.o and they told him its rubbish and there s no guildlines by the home office, and different forces make it up as they go. considering the price of renewals and the poor service (4months here) I think some of us get a rough deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamp Donkey Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 They work well on pigeon In wilts, I have all legal quarry on all calibers, .17hmr to .308, you should see what a 175gr smk does to a rat !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 I had .243win for any lawful quarry on my ticket, after shooting it for 12 months I decided it was too much rifle for my needs, the biggest thing I shoot is a buck muntjac and a 22cf is plenty for that. In my experiences for vermin and munties I think 22cf is more than enough, I have shot dozens of munties with 22cf and never had a runner, I have also shot pigeons out to 475yds with a 20cal. If you bear in mind that a 22cf 75amax bullet gives a better BC than 90% of 6mm bullets why would you want a 6mm for vermin ??? I have been considering a 6mm recently for long range vermin at extreme ranges (400-600yds) but to be honest I don't think it would give me any advantages unless I shot the 105grain amax bullets which is a little overkill for a pigeon. I'm not disagreeing with anything you say about what is enough for your usage,or even what maybe overkill. But I am inclined to think velocity is a factor in conjunction with BC.So the 75g a max used in a Hornet would struggle to outshine a 243 using a lower BC bullet.and you do concede that there are 6mm bullets that have a better BC than the 75g amax. Gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamp Donkey Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 lol I'd like to see that. Dung pile at 220yds, rat vaporised !!! I did find a foot ! Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 lol I'd like to see that. Dead,chunks,mince,vegan( no traceable animal material) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheldon cooper Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 Lancashire must be one of the worst I have been told no to .222 for vermin. Was told fox only. I need to shoot crows in strong winds on the moors. more often than not at over 100 yards some times a lot further. The rifles I have are .22 and 17 hmr. And they aren't up to the job. Is this not a "good enough reason"??? I cant understand how I would be safe to shoot a fox but not a crow on the same ground. And obviously there is now league problem if the people above have even larger calibres conditiond for vermin. Double standards!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJR Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 I thought the .243 came about as a result of wildcatters necking down .308 cases for varmint shooting? It was then introduced formally by Winchester in 1955? Either way it is an excellent vermin cartridge, very fast and flat shooting with lighter bullets and very capable of long range with the heavier bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pork chop Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 i asked my flo about a 6br for vermin and got flatly refused ,dont know why we have to have so many different standards throughout the country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 I thought the .243 came about as a result of wildcatters necking down .308 cases for varmint shooting? It was then introduced formally by Winchester in 1955?Either way it is an excellent vermin cartridge, very fast and flat shooting with lighter bullets and very capable of long range with the heavier bullets. Sort of-eg Warren Page had his 243 Super Pooper,and others were working on the T 65 case too (like the. Rock Chucker) essentially as varminting cartridge. Winchester introduced the commercial version designed and marketed as dual purpose deer/varmint cartridge,a fairly new idea commercially,with two bullet weight loadings to match,and rifling twist to handle both.Remington"s reply didn't envisage a dual use,and suffered accordingly and has just never got near the 243 in sales ,despite some revamping,though the Rem 6mm is pRobably just a little better that the 243w now.Lighter bullets eg the 58 g has just enhanced the 243w as a varmint cartridge,and 115g as a longer range number-but the latter of course needs a much faster twist. Rem 6 mm of course can do similar,with slight velocity gains. 243 is just plain versatile,though of course can't handle bullets heavier than 115 g at the most. Gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matchking Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 I have a 300 wsm for vermin. But know people under the catchment area as me who struggled to get vermin on a .243 There is a load of crap being pushed around by firearms dept. Such foxes while deer stalking and mentoring. If you are having trouble just ask your FLO to put into writing on police headed paper where in the law it says you can't have what ever your after. Before you even apply for anything make sure you have 100% tight reason for wanting it. Don't waste your time with BASC there about as much use as a cup of cold piss. RGDS SEAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 I have a 300 wsm for vermin. But know people under the catchment area as me who struggled to get vermin on a .243 There is a load of crap being pushed around by firearms dept. Such foxes while deer stalking and mentoring. If you are having trouble just ask your FLO to put into writing on police headed paper where in the law it says you can't have what ever your after. Before you even apply for anything make sure you have 100% tight reason for wanting it. Don't waste your time with BASC there about as much use as a cup of cold piss. RGDS SEAN Civility is always a good strategy.It may be that experience is (understandably ? ) one consideration.Consider so called "open certificates " -unlikely to be granted to newbies,as the decision about safety in use may be considered ...to need quite a bit of safe experience over some years .Some key concepts are in the guidelines,as well as the definitive content of the Firearms Acts. Gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 I have the same problem with powys, a 223 with only fox on it, I have a 22 LR for rabbits and other vermin, but on some of the more open fields try shooting a carrion crow at 200 yards with a 22 LR....... I also had to have mentoring, after shooting rifles in the ccf, and having had a shotgun certificate for 22 years, mind you my mentor was happy with me after 2 sessions out, so after 8 weeks I had the mentor restriction lifted. Andy R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheldon cooper Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 I have the same problem with powys, a 223 with only fox on it, I have a 22 LR for rabbits and other vermin, but on some of the more open fields try shooting a carrion crow at 200 yards with a 22 LR....... I also had to have mentoring, after shooting rifles in the ccf, and having had a shotgun certificate for 22 years, mind you my mentor was happy with me after 2 sessions out, so after 8 weeks I had the mentor restriction lifted. Andy R I just don't get it either pall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtb Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 i had the same problem with lancs cant have vermin control with 223 so i had it rebarreled in 17 rem i just dont get it is dead not dead regardless of how you get it done atb mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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