Laurie

N165 is deifinitely just a tad slow burning for the cartridge - I use a Forster long drop-tube funnel for everything though as it seems everything I load these days has the case completely full, even F/TR .308 and .223 loads! I'd intended to use H4831 too, but with the Hodgdon powder situation, there's no guarantee of getting a season's supply, even when it reappears. (When Edgar Brothers receives its main annual shipment from the USA and word gets out that retailers have IMR / Hodgdon powders again, it'll spread like wildfire via all these electronic gizzmos I don't understand and it really will be a case of 'The Devil takes the hindmost!', at least for Varget, H4895, H4350 and probably H4831 too.) Apart from H4831, Re17 / Elcho 17 is the other obvious alternative for this cartridge, alongside Viht N560. Despite David (6mmBR)'s views on high-energy powders being fine barrel life wise, I'd rather stick with a good old single-base job having seen what N540 and N550 can do to .308 Win F/TR rifle barrels - providing the cartridge performs well enough of course. I will try Ramshot Hunter (double-base ball type) in it under 180s at some point purely to evaluate the powder. Primers? I'll wait to hear with others with experience of the cartridge say. I'm using Russian (Murom) PMC branded primers which have a reputation like the CCI-BR2 model for being mild, but you can't get them in this country anymore.

Robert. I should have said I used a Forster 5.5-inch narrow diameter drop-tube funnel and swirl pour to get 57gn into the case. (Swirl pour is tilt the case + funnel slightly and pour the charge slowly from the scalepan onto the funnel wall in such a way that it runs partly around the funnel before dropping into the droptube. This lets you get 2-3gn more into the case compared to a straight downwards pour into a short-tube funnel.)

Robert, you don't say what bullet weight you're using, or what length throating / COALs you're running at. I'm assuming it'll be 180s and the barrel throated suitably? In my straight 284 throated by Mik Mak for the Berger 180gn VLD, I can run with a compressed case-load of N165 under the 180gn Sierra MK, a VLD form bullet and seated ~0.015" into the lands. MV is 2,820 fps with 57.0gn with reasonable MV spreads from a 30-inch gain twist (1-8.5 to 1-8 inch) Bartlein. I have been up to 57.5gn which will be somewhere around 2,850 fps still with no pressure problems but the load didn't group well. Above that weight, the charge will be very heavily compressed and I don't believe it'd be wise or practical. That's in expanded Lapua 6.5-284 brass, but Hannams now have Winchester 284 originals in stock which will likely have more capacity than Lapua, but will also equally likely not be as consistent (not measured or weighed any cases yet), If you do try N165, start around 54gn and go up in half-grain steps to 56.5gn and then in smaller steps above that. I've also tried N165 with the older 175gn SMK with reasonable results but it's a little short on velocity. I'd say it's a too slow burner for anything lighter than 175 if you want full .284 MVs. See you at Diggle?

Fine by me Neil.