JDT

I've shot .22LR for a long time (rabbits) but looking to get a semi-auto for gallery rifle. Was just wondering what scope brands and magnification people would recommend? I've done plenty of research for optics for different centrefire disciplines and ranges but don't really know much about rimfire disciplines optic choices.

Anybody know if anyone's importing these or can? Says they're a division of Defiance Machine so thought maybe those who have an account importing Defiance actions might be able to get hold of them:

https://badrockrifles.com/

Seem like good value, although with import and taxes that value may take a nose dive...

On 4/25/2020 at 11:37 PM, SchmidtP3 said:

Remington 700 Police/PSS comes with a 40X trigger. No need for mods. Sub MOA accuracy. Just add optics. 👍

Been having a look around and as far as I can tell this particular 700 model doesn't come in left handed unless I'm missing it, so unfortunately rules it out for me. So second hand AI AT or Tikka Tac are probably still front-runners.

Optics-wise I was probably going to go for  Vortex Viper PST Gen II 5-25 x 50.

1 hour ago, ds1 said:

Well when I was younger I put my money where my mouth was and moved to CZ - best thing I ever did. A large part of that was due to U.K. restrictions on firearms. 

The worst thing that I did not do was moving to the USA when I had the opportunity (before moving to CZ).

Point is find a place in the world where you are happy as you will never change the system in your lifetime. I got it a bit wrong with CZ as I did not foresee it becoming part of the EU at the time. At least in the USA it is so diverse that you can find a place that is more  likely to meet your lifestyle / values / beliefs and freedoms so that you do not feel that you are forced to comply with draconian values that you do not believe in.

I'm with you there. I'm 32 at the moment and my company has 2 sites in the US (One Texas and the other NC). If I ever got the opportunity I'd be sure not to pass it up to get over there, not just for the extra shooting / guns to be had but for the vast variety of landscapes that would be closer to home and freedom to wild camp and get out into the wilderness more etc! I absolutely despise that wild camping is technically illegal in all of England and Wales and sometimes just tolerated for 1 night. The US just seems a better nation for outdoorsy types.

57 minutes ago, Scotch_egg said:

A blue printed action isn’t something that you can really just get done to a standard rifle. It should involve re-cutting the action threads which in turn would be oversize for the factory barrel and as such a new barrel would need fitting. A true blue print would be very costly and  after all the work the action would still be a remmington and not be worth the investment.
 

 I replied to your question  “best precision production rifle” with Accuracy International AT. It’s expensive but an excellent rifle. They can be had for about £2000 secondhand when they come up. A worthwhile purchase I can attest.  
 

For a have the price you can get a new Tikka T3X varmint for about £1100. I shot one in .308 for a few years and have to say it was excellent. It’s now wearing a custom barrel in .22-250 and going strong. 

There are plenty of accessories for the T3 and the trigger is excellent only needing a replacement spring for £10 rather than a £200 trigger that the remmington needs. 
 

 

Fair point and always good to hear the counter-point as mentioned just above too. I'll keep my eye out for an AI AT for £2000 but that's my absolute highest initial budget. I also have the added annoyance of needing a left-handed one to come up as well which immediately culls about 90% of the market. The Tikka Tac or T3X is still in the running definitely. And all things considered this thread has done exactly what I wanted - sound advice and debate from experienced people on which to base my decision, so thank you all for the input  

Thanks again for the further replies, I think I am in fact leaning towards the Remington 700 route and just get whatever gunsmith work I can afford initially (maybe action blueprint) and then customise it over time with trigger, stock and barrel as and when I feel is right to do so with smaller levels of investment over a longer time frame. That way I'll have the range experience to know what I feel needs upgrading as a priority.

saddler - wanted to say thanks for the particularly lengthy reply which helped me out there. It's funny you mention that because when I saw your location I was actually going to ask you where in Durham / County Durham you lived and where you shoot, which clubs you're a member of etc. I'm from Seaham.

As I said in my OP, it's typical that I was literally about to have my first intro club shoots the weekend after this all went down! I'm absolutely dying to get started. The plus side is that I should be able to save more money to put into it in the coming months because I have no work fuel costs or meals and drinks out to pay for (if I can stop myself spending it all on boredom booze...)!

Thanks for the replies everyone, will take a look at the Accuracy International AT’s and some second hand’s. Although I am one of these weird people who likes to be the custodian of something from brand new so it irks me haha. I can’t help it, it’s just part of me 🙄

48 minutes ago, martin_b said:

>>Best ( for me ) Gucci - Kelbly NYX

Never heard of it till 5 mins aago, now after a quick google, I want one.

Same, but we’ll outside my budget haha

7 minutes ago, Scotch_egg said:

Best production rifle. Well it’s got to be an Accuracy International AT. 
 

same action as the AX308 and shoots just as well. But cheaper. 

Cheers mate, what price do they tend to come in at?

17 minutes ago, Popsbengo said:

You haven't mentioned budget for the rifle and for the scope + mounts etc.

Custom rifles can loose a shed load of value as they are, well, custom - meaning specific to your needs and that might not be someone else's 'must have'.

Tikka Tac is very popular for good reasons.  

Budget is approximately £2k for rifle and £1.5k for optics is what I had in mind. Cheers.

25 minutes ago, topscots1 said:

Bergarra HMR, I have mine bedded I a PSE stock.  Incredible rifle for the money, thinking about a carbon fibre barrel. If I do total all in cost will have been around 3 K

I was thinking a Bergara HMR as well and as it happens they’ve started doing them in leftie, will definitely consider.

So just when I was about to start target / long range shooting at a few clubs, the whole coronavirus thing kicked off (literally the week before I was meant to have my first weekend on the range).

I’ve got plenty of shooting experience on vermin so had it in my head that once I was a member of the clubs I’d get a 6.5 Creedmoor on my ticket and go down the full custom route built on a Bighorn Origin.

Obviously since then I’ve had more than enough time to mull this over and concluded that it’s probably not the best call and I should be spending any extra money on ammo and punching as much paper on the range (when we can all get back to it of course...) to just improve at target shooting in general. I realistically couldn’t afford a full custom rifle and have enough money left over to get optics anywhere near good enough to do it justice.

So with that in mind I started googling best production / ‘out-of-the-box’ long range / tactical precision rifles for 600 - 1000 yards. Just wondering what people’s opinions on this are? I like the Bergara Premier LRP but don’t think it comes in lefty. Also the Bad Rock South Fork (which I believe is a production rifle made by Defiance) which does comes in lefty but not sure I could get one over here:

https://badrockrifles.com/

Or...am I just better off getting a semi-custom trued-up donor Remy 700 with a Sassen barrel and Mcmillian stock and tuned trigger from a reputable gunsmith? Or would that also be significantly more expensive than a production rifle?

All thoughts very much appreciated.

Welcome mate  sounds like you've got a pretty good situation for shooting! Once you're in a club or two it'll be well rounded out!

Ah right I see, well thanks a lot for taking the time to explain that to me. As this will be for CSR ranges using .223 I'm sure I'd be fine with a standard 0 MOA base then.

I'll also bear in mind what you said about the mount on a flat top. I think what I might have to do in the end is buy 2 of the same model mount that I settle on (one standard, one high) close to the time of build completion so I can test fit both of them and see what works best (could be either as I have quite a small head so may get away with standard...) and then return the one that I don't use within refund period. 

13 hours ago, Bangbangman said:

The answer will depend on the AR. Is it a flat-top? If it is, you may need cantilever mount to get eye relief but also significantly higher than mounts for a “conventional“ rifle or you won’t be able to get your head low enough to see through the scope (ie. the opposite of the usual problem of getting good cheek weld with a trad stock.) 

I have 3 AR flat-top uppers: scope height above bore is typically 2.75”, compared to 1.75” on my “traditional” rifles. No riser required for a snug cheek-weld.

 

I use American Defense (I can’t afford Spuhr) but for the money I was impressed with AR-Stoner mounts.

 

Thanks for the reply. This is just theoretical and me gathering knowledge for now for a future build but yes I do imagine it would be a flat-top. That's just what I was thinking about getting your head low-enough as well, which is one of the reasons I made this post.

I think when I eventually get my build sorted I'll ask the gunsmith if I can come down with my scope and mount and him fit it while I test cheek weld and adjust the stock so I get it set up right first time and should take no longer than an hour. Then I'll know if I need a riser at the time and see if he has any recommendations.

I'd also like a quick-release ideally, but failing that I was thinking a Tier One Monomount. Just had a look at the AD quick-release cantilever mount as well as the Spuhr (certainly pricey as you say!).

Whilst we're on I may as well ask something else - what's the application of different angles on mounts I see (0, 20, 30 MOA etc?). I'm very new to this sort of thing so it's an extra spanner in the works for my decision making haha. Is there a certain mounting angle people prefer for CSR ranges? If someone could give me a brief explanation it would be much appreciated. 

I'm looking at the Trijicon Credo 1-8 x 28 which I reckon would get away with standard height. I'd like a canted mount as you said, preferably quick release.

Just curious what people tend to find is the best mount height for scopes on an AR15? Do people usually opt for standard rings or high / extra?

Just had a look at those John and I love the carbon version, although push-fed rather than controlled-feed like both the Vudoo and RimX. Still, I bet the full Bergara would be half the price of a full custom built off the V-22 or RimX…

Wonder if it comes in lefty, didn't say on their website.

Cheers for the response baldie. Are the Bighorn one's you're referring to 'RIMX' from Zermatt Arms which is also the parent company of Bighorn? Found it odd that they have 2 separate websites for their respective actions if they're essentially the same company. Going to look at them right now!

I'm actually wanting a 6.5 Creedmoor building on a Bighorn Origin action in the future when the money is there...will be interesting to see how well their reputation translates to the rimfire market.

With the UK PRL starting a .22LR league this Summer I was wondering if there was a UK importer / distributor for VGW?

Also interested to know if there are any other 'custom' magazine-fed rimfire actions on the market that people know of and if the established gunsmiths and custom builders (traditionally centrefire) on here see this as something they may get into over the next few years (depending on the popularity of .22LR PRL obviously)?

Note for mods - I know .22s are specified for the 'Other Sporting Rifles' sub-forum but due to the specific discipline I thought this would be suitable in tactical. Feel free to move if you want though  

12 hours ago, Roy W said:

Lots of people use 1-4/1-5/1-6/1-8 power scopes in service optic and keep them wound down to 4.5x as JMH said.

Choose what class you want to shoot in and choose a scope to suit you. If you are shooting in SO class then get a reticle that suits you and isn't cluttered and adjustable turrets so you can dial in ranges quickly for run downs etc.

Apart from that it's personal choice and budget.

Get a good strong mount

The top scores in both classes are similar with SO often outperforming PO, so scope magnification is often irrelevant.

If you want a high power scope and bipod, choose PO.

Both the scopes you show have capped turrets. Steiner used to do a 1-5x24 M5Xi which if you can get 2nd hand is superb and has tactical turrets. Look at the M range not the T range scopes.

Or Vortex/ S&B / Trijicon and Steiner do 1-8x24 's with tactical turrets.

Go along to a CSR shoot and see what others are using.

 

 

 

Thanks for that mate, from what you've said I'd probably go for one of the 1-8 x 24's you mentioned and just max it out at 4.5x for service optic. I like the way SO sounds over PO (seems more restrictive and therefore challenging) but never know, may change my mind once I actually try it, as you said.

Absolutely agree on what you said about reticles, really not a fan of the increasingly cluttered ones that are coming out lately.

Ah right I didn't realise that, thanks for the response! Clarified a lot for me there. Means I don't have to be so restrictive. That said, I'd still like to know if anyone has any experience with these close-range optics?

I intend to get into CSR and from what I understand from looking into it a scope must have a maximum magnification of 4x to be allowed for use. With that in mind I started a search for a 1-4 x 24 from all the usual mid-high end manufacturers but surprisingly found very few offerings!

The only ones I've really found are:

Steiner P4Xi -  https://www.steiner-optics.com/riflescopes/p4xi-1-4x24 and

Trijicon Credo - https://www.trijicon.com/products/product-family/trijicon-credo-1-4x24-riflescope

Are there any more suitable ones that folk in the UK have found? Does anyone in the UK have any experience / comments / reviews regarding these scopes that I found? I also noticed that both were significantly lower than MSRP on the US site opticsplanet.com, with the Trijicon coming in at $700 ($300 cheaper) and the Steiner only $570 (a massive $430 saving) and since international secure shipping to the UK was $80, purchasing from here seems like a no-brainer to me.

Any answers most welcome.

Cheers.