AR15's are not accurate ?

[LONG RANGE CAPT]

Had the opportunity to take my new AR15 out for a shoot the other day.

 

After a quick zero it produced this at 100 meters:-

 

 

 

Haven't worked out, how small the group is exactly - but I must say its the most accurate .223 / 5.56 I've ever shot.

 

Must say a big thank you to Baldie for putting the AR together for me.

 

Kind regards

 

Rob

[baldie]

Nice one Rob.

 

Look forward to seeing you up at the Diggle matches. Send me your e-mail addy and i,ll get you put on the mailing list.

[joshmartin8]

they certainly are with a good barrel, i get ragged holes with my 18inch 1in8 also

[baldie]

This is fitted with one of the barrels from Adam and Lewis at Sassen engineering [ border formerly ] .

 

Excellent barrels.

 

I fear they will become victim to their own popularity however.

[Border Barrels]

Thank you Dave. We try our best to make sure every barrel that leaves us is of the best standard we can produce. However this is just a small part of the accuracy. A lot has to be said for the quality of a gunsmith's work and also the person pulling the trigger to produce accuracy of this standard. Thanks again guys

 

Adam

[ds1]

The only thing that makes an AR harder to shoot is the lock time.....AR platform measured in days and weeks, bolt gun measured in milliseconds.......a good shooter can make up for a lot though.

[MrCetrizine]

My Geissele SD-E is 5.1ms.

[ds1]

RPA Quadlock has a lock time of 1.5 m/s

[ds1]

This is a pra-phrase from David Tubb, who is usually accepted as knowing a thing or three about rifles and accuracy

 

The goal is always to eliminate variables so that every bullet hits closer to the next. Lock time is the time between the trigger break and primer ignition.
The flight time of most bullets through the barrel is 1.0-1.5 milliseconds (thousandths of a second) while the lock time of most conventional bolt action rifles varies between 2.6 and 9.0 milliseconds, a reduction in lock time will cause your rifle to hit closer to where you held the sight when you pulled the trigger. Everyone's rifle is moving when it's fired. The amount of movement may be almost imperceptible, but that's all it takes. If you're shooting at a trophy deer at 300 yards, movement at the muzzle of only 0.058 inches means a missed animal. If you're a competitive silhouette shooter, just 0.022 movement makes the difference between a hit and a miss on a 500 meter ram. When lock time is reduced, the probability of hitting your target is increased.

[baldie]

Do know what will combat all these theories and calculations regarding lock time, and give you better results ?

 

Actually shooting and practising.

 

A sound technique from a good stable position will miraculously put the bullets where you want them to go.

 

regardless of how many gnats fart cockhairs faster your lock time is over the next man in the line.

[tackb]

Do know what will combat all these theories and calculations regarding lock time, and give you better results ?

 

Actually shooting and practising.

 

A sound technique from a good stable position will miraculously put the bullets where you want them to go.

 

regardless of how many gnats fart cockhairs faster your lock time is over the next man in the line.

 

you've got it all wrong dave , it's the most expensive rifle and kit that's best everyone knows that, in fact just taping £50 notes to it will improve your groups..........

[Murph]

you've got it all wrong dave , it's the most expensive rifle and kit that's best everyone knows that, in fact just taping £50 notes to it will improve your groups..........

Yes and they can double up as wind flags!

[Scotch_egg]

Had the opportunity to take my new AR15 out for a shoot the other day.

 

After a quick zero it produced this at 100 meters:-

 

 

Haven't worked out, how small the group is exactly - but I must say its the most accurate .223 / 5.56 I've ever shot.

 

Must say a big thank you to Baldie for putting the AR together for me.

 

Kind regards

 

Rob

You must be very happy. What load did you use?

[That bald headed Geordie]

In Benchrest competitions the above group is called a 'weather report'. If you had put out wind flags and shot in the same wind condition your group may have improved and been half the size. Your vertical spread is good though. Without wind flags your p*ss*ng in the wind!!!

[baldie]

I believe, the load was .....Factory ammo ?

 

Hornady TAP Rob ?

[LONG RANGE CAPT]

Hi Dave,

 

The ammo was factory Hornaday TAP 75gr BTHP, shot in gusting 15-20 full value right to left wind with a 12x power S&B scope.

 

All subsequent groups were consistently small and worked very well.

 

Kind regards

 

Rob

[gbal]

Rob's group looks about .5 (it has to be more than 3 calibres,but needs reducing to 100y for comparisons.

 

That is very decent shooting-and as Les says,and Rob confirms,there was gusty L/R wind.

 

AS It happens,the 2 may 100 BR results are available here,and they were shot in very bad conditions-as Bruce reports it's a long time since a 100y comp was won by an aggregate of almost .5,and there were only a quarter of competitiors who in the .5s.

The usual podiums -and well down the lists -would be half that(these are all 5x5 shot aggrregates,,and very few if any would be 224. Even so,there was a range of groups from a .2 to over an inch.

Wind -and variability in wind!!

 

I think Dave puts lock time into some perspective. I acknowledge of course Tubbs impeccable across the course shooting credentials,a largely unsupported rifle discipline,as is silhouette shooting,and also that he had an interest in promoting his commercial rifle's fast lock time-I doubt that alone is hindering Dave at all.

But to suggest that deer are missed at 2-300 yards because of muzzle movement is disengenuous--and probably neglects the use of some kind of rest-bipod,or fence post.These are by no means perfect,but a good (bench) rest gets groups (nb) down below the .2s and many sporters into .5s,so It's implausible any deer misses are due mainly to +.3 m/s lock time alone.

 

Any sustained grouping under .5 moa is very acceptable in most shooting(butt not 100y BR) and should please owners. Rifles -including 224s,and some AR15 derivatives with class barrels-that can perform that well are no longer rare. Rifles that do it sometimes are often on here.

But there are a fair number-though fewer,who would be disappointed with a 5 shot .5 moa group at 100y from their pet 224.

 

gbal