DSC 1 - Cheapest way to follow the flock please?

[Guest Tiff]

Several times now friends have invited me out to shoot, only at the last minute asking to see my deer stalking Level 1...Which I've never bothered with, resulting in missing a good trip out .

 

Combining the deer I've shot and have taken people out to shoot (for free), it comes to just under 300 roe/red. So not too bad for someone under 20 ....But apparently no matter how much experience you have, your not a true deer stalker unless you have a DSC level1

 

So what is the easiest and cheapest way to get through the process? Is there any commodity of common sense, so that you can get some sort of 'grandfather rights' , doing a short/cheap version (guessing not since there's no money in that...)?

 

As you can probably tell, I'm not exactly enthused about having to pay the BDS an extortionate amount of money. However I guess I've got to follow the rest of the flock and bite the bullet

 

All help, as ever greatly appreciated.

 

Bah Bah Bleat Bleat

 

Tiff

[tulkyuk]

You can do the assesment only part (which is just the exams and rifle shooting part) for £90 and that way you wont have to sit through 2 days of lessons etc

[Guest Tiff]

You can do the assesment only part (which is just the exams and rifle shooting part) for £90 and that way you wont have to sit through 2 days of lessons etc

 

 

That sounds more like it The cheapest I saw on the web was £155 for the exam and shoot, whch seemed a bit OTT to say the least.

Do you have any links please?

[Berger]

you can just sit the test which is about £80 to £90 for the day there is a registration fee of £25 aslo to pay,I have a freind in Devon who runs the courses if you would like me to have a word,it wont be for another 10 days as hes in Africa

so the cost is only about 2 roe buck carcasses out of the 300 you shoot

hopefully he will be sponsering me to be a level 2 accredited witness

[JC275]

DSC One is not compulsary, you clearly don't feel that it is worth doing so the simple answer is don't do it! The number of deer you have shot is irelevant, the DSC1 is an entry level course, experience comes into play when you go on to the DSC2, assuming that have learnt something during those 300 stalks and grallochs. You don't have to pay the BDS a penny if you don't want to, there are many other training providers out there, some good, some bad and some ugly. Not wishing to comment on your personal circumstances but, in a recent thread you said that you had more than £5,000 in more than one account so a cynical person may say, if you take your stalking seriously then put your hand in your pocket! In my opinon the BDS run courses are the most proffessional and comprehensive that I know of and cost, I believe, £290 'ish or, to put it another way, 250 rnds of ammo. Sorry to have a rant but I get fed up with people knocking a system that they don't even have to be part of. JC

[Guest Tiff]

I have a freind in Devon who runs the courses if you would like me to have a word,it wont be for another 10 days as hes in Africa

 

We've got the same friend thanks He would normally be my fist port of call, be was seeing what other people have done first. Might see if they both won't to come down for a days long range shooting/ferreting and pick his brains then...Once they've stopped doing poncy photo shoots in the brush

 

Apart from the overly strenuous shooting test, what else does the range day involve? Still trying to work out what I get for my money?

[Berger]

We've got the same friend thanks He would normally be my fist port of call, be was seeing what other people have done first. Might see if they both won't to come down for a days long range shooting/ferreting and pick his brains then...Once they've stopped doing poncy photo shoots in the brush

 

Apart from the overly strenuous shooting test, what else does the range day involve? Still trying to work out what I get for my money?

wrong freind Iam afraid Ian just helps out,he isnt an assessor and dosent run the course

[Guest Tiff]

DSC One is not compulsary, you clearly don't feel that it is worth doing so the simple answer is don't do it! The number of deer you have shot is irelevant, the DSC1 is an entry level course, experience comes into play when you go on to the DSC2, assuming that have learnt something during those 300 stalks and grallochs. You don't have to pay the BDS a penny if you don't want to, there are many other training providers out there, some good, some bad and some ugly. Not wishing to comment on your personal circumstances but, in a recent thread you said that you had more than £5,000 in more than one account so a cynical person may say, if you take your stalking seriously then put your hand in your pocket! In my opinon the BDS run courses are the most proffessional and comprehensive that I know of and cost, I believe, £290 'ish or, to put it another way, 250 rnds of ammo. Sorry to have a rant but I get fed up with people knocking a system that they don't even have to be part of. JC

 

I think you've missed the point of my post...Level 1 seems to be a requirement by a lot of estates etc. that my friends are on, and you need it before you get a chance to go out... They regularly come out on mine and invite me back in return, its just out of frustration of not going with them that I feel I need to get this bit of paper. I'm not knocking the system exactly, simply asking if there are any ways around/short cuts through the entry level.

Apart from BDS / BASC what other courses are in place and what makes them less/more good?

I'm a tight Cornish student and simply don't like throwing money around without need - don't even drink much (even at student prices) because of that .

 

 

wrong freind Iam afraid Ian just helps out,he isnt an assessor and dosent run the course

Ah ok then.. any extra info/options would be great thanks. If it makes a difference I think one of my friends is interested as well.

[Berger]

I think you've missed the point of my post...Level 1 seems to be a requirement by a lot of estates etc. that my friends are on, and you need it before you get a chance to go out... They regularly come out on mine and invite me back in return, its just out of frustration of not going with them that I feel I need to get this bit of paper. I'm not knocking the system exactly, simply asking if there are any ways around/short cuts through the entry level.

Apart from BDS / BASC what other courses are in place and what makes them less/more good?

I'm a tight Cornish student and simply don't like throwing money around without need - don't even drink much (even at student prices) because of that .

 

 

 

Ah ok then.. any extra info/options would be great thanks. If it makes a difference I think one of my friends is interested as well.

you have PM

[sauer]

very true what others say that it is not compulsory but seems by far from my view to be the most "common" or most accepted.

im afraid like every other avenue in life most things seem to be coming down to bits of paper

 

look at adverts for stalking syndicates etc in shooting times or other places and most now asking for minimum level1.

 

i believe tell me please if im mistaken but i think the forrestry commission now want minimum level 2 ???

 

bear in mind that now a days ( long time since i did my levle 1) i beleive you also get the basic meat hygenie handling certificate pegged on to level 1 also.

 

is it really that much money? for what you get? i thnik not and im no massive deer commission groupie or nowt.

 

it opens alot of doors for you regarding invites ability to join other syndicates ground etc.

 

just my honest opinion, that is the way things are going.

 

sauer

[eldon]

Sauer, I think the level 2 requirement is for fc stalking leases and generally syndicate members need level 1.

 

Anybody know different?

 

Like others I did mine just to get the bit of paper, it may not be compulsory but it might as well be as times going on.

 

Not sure whether its a good or bad thing but once its out of the way it doesn't matter.

 

Took the same view on my bike licence and never looked back, friends saying I wish I 'd done mine, or I need to get this out of the way etc. You can sit there all smug

[flytie]

The DSC1 and 2 are a way for the people you rent your stalking from to cover their own ar*e. These days it is not enough for you to say you are competent, you have to prove it. Unfortunately we live in litigous times when folks will sue you for fun.

 

If you have the course, you can prove a level of competancy (that you can probably already exceed), so a bloke in the Forestry comission office or running a syndicate in Scotland can know immediately that you are relativly competent and not just have to take your word for it. Therefore he is less likly to be sued because he let an incompetent novice out on his land. Simple, but sad.

 

Go and enjoy the course, you will meet like minded people. Unless of course you know everything about health & safety, the game handling laws, ballistics and deer ecology. But then of course it should be a breeze for you

 

ft

[sauer]

crikey just realised how long ago i did my level 1 & level 2 and i still consider my self a novice!!!!!!!

 

do the course get it out the way so to speak and keep the "bit o paper" in a nice secure place

 

it might come in handy

 

sauer

[menial 1]

The DSC1 and 2 are a way for the people you rent your stalking from to cover their own ar*e. These days it is not enough for you to say you are competent, you have to prove it. Unfortunately we live in litigous times when folks will sue you for fun.

 

If you have the course, you can prove a level of competancy (that you can probably already exceed), so a bloke in the Forestry comission office or running a syndicate in Scotland can know immediately that you are relativly competent and not just have to take your word for it. Therefore he is less likly to be sued because he let an incompetent novice out on his land. Simple, but sad.

 

Go and enjoy the course, you will meet like minded people. Unless of course you know everything about health & safety, the game handling laws, ballistics and deer ecology. But then of course it should be a breeze for you

 

ft

 

I'm sorry but DSCI certificates do not make competent stalkers, merely that some one has passed a test in a classroom and made some relatively simple shots under controlled conditions. Having taken out some relatively novice stalkers that were qualified DSCI I would certainly not call them competent to be allowed out unaccompanied. Lack of experience, patience and buck fever are the novices worst enemy, and those problems can't be resolved with a bit of paper I'm afraid.

I was fortunate enough to have professional stalkers/keepers tutor me, and teach me the things I now take for granted and have done for many years, four days in a classroom and an afternoon shooting paper doesn't mean the candidate will be safe when footpaths, the public, backstops and many other considerations haven to be taken into account in the couple of moments a deer may give you to make a telling shot.

Pete.

[devilishdave]

You will need to do the DSC1 online learning or just get the DSC1 Manuel and read it coover to cover to make sure you are singing their song before you sit the test. I guess the Manuel will be cheapest because it is £40 ish and the online learning is IRO £100. Then the test later on at £100 ish.

 

Dave

[Alycidon]

I'm sorry but DSCI certificates do not make competent stalkers, merely that some one has passed a test in a classroom and made some relatively simple shots under controlled conditions. Having taken out some relatively novice stalkers that were qualified DSCI I would certainly not call them competent to be allowed out unaccompanied. Lack of experience, patience and buck fever are the novices worst enemy, and those problems can't be resolved with a bit of paper I'm afraid.

I was fortunate enough to have professional stalkers/keepers tutor me, and teach me the things I now take for granted and have done for many years, four days in a classroom and an afternoon shooting paper doesn't mean the candidate will be safe when footpaths, the public, backstops and many other considerations haven to be taken into account in the couple of moments a deer may give you to make a telling shot.

Pete.

 

Here here, I did and passed L1 without having been stalking at all, took some work though and I was a pretty experienced shot.

 

Insurance and fear of litigation is what is driving estates and the FC to seek formal qualifications, it covers there backside. On my L1 course there were pro stalkers with 100s of beasts under their belts.

 

The FC/Tilhill are now raising the bar and demanding L2, there is though not enough L2 tickets out there to cover all the potential slots at present. A friend of mine with over 600 head to his name has been trying for over a year to get L2, only last month he nailed his first witnessed Roe.

 

A

[JC275]

Ok, so we've moved on from running down DSC1 and started on DSC2. Can't wait to here more details of the guy that has shot 600 deer but somehow can't manage to find 601,602 and 603. I expect we'll then move on to stories of 'I've paid out £XXXX in stalking fees and still no witnessed deer'. Come on guys, its not difficult. We face certification in all areas of life, I have a folder full of bits of paper that say I can drive a car, fell trees, climb trees, spray fields, drive machines, adminiser first aid etc etc. No-one forced me to undertake any one of these. If you think its all a load of crap then the answers clear - don't get involved!! It seems to me that 'DSC whingeing' has taken over from stalking as the fastest growing fieldsport in the UK! JC

[flytie]

Ok, so we've moved on from running down DSC1 and started on DSC2. Can't wait to here more details of the guy that has shot 600 deer but somehow can't manage to find 601,602 and 603. I expect we'll then move on to stories of 'I've paid out £XXXX in stalking fees and still no witnessed deer'. Come on guys, its not difficult. We face certification in all areas of life, I have a folder full of bits of paper that say I can drive a car, fell trees, climb trees, spray fields, drive machines, adminiser first aid etc etc. No-one forced me to undertake any one of these. If you think its all a load of crap then the answers clear - don't get involved!! It seems to me that 'DSC whingeing' has taken over from stalking as the fastest growing fieldsport in the UK! JC

Well said that man

 

ft

[flytie]

I'm sorry but DSCI certificates do not make competent stalkers, merely that some one has passed a test in a classroom and made some relatively simple shots under controlled conditions. Having taken out some relatively novice stalkers that were qualified DSCI I would certainly not call them competent to be allowed out unaccompanied. Lack of experience, patience and buck fever are the novices worst enemy, and those problems can't be resolved with a bit of paper I'm afraid.

I was fortunate enough to have professional stalkers/keepers tutor me, and teach me the things I now take for granted and have done for many years, four days in a classroom and an afternoon shooting paper doesn't mean the candidate will be safe when footpaths, the public, backstops and many other considerations haven to be taken into account in the couple of moments a deer may give you to make a telling shot.

Pete.

Pete, and just because you don't have a "piece of paper" makes you more qualified does it?

 

Think not of yourself, but the poor person leasing the stalking out. How does anyone leasing out stalking know how experienced anyone ringing them up is? The DSC is for their protection. It is not a brilliant system, but bleating on about how only people like you with thousands of deer under their belt should be able to stalk is plainly silly and selfish.

 

Some of the professionals on my DSC course were more than pleased to learn how to protect themselves from, or at least minimise their risk of, litigation by the public. Put yourself in other peoples shoes for a change, look at the problem from the other side. You may not like the fact that shooting leases are for sale, but they are! And anything that raises the standard of novice's entering the sport should be encouraged I would have thought

 

If you have a better solution write to the BDS, BASC or your MP and get the system changed. In my opinion it is a very creaky and unsubstantial bandwagon that you have jumped on.

 

However much people whinge about it, the DSC is here to stay, you might as well moan about the weather. It would at least be more interesting and make much more sense.

 

ft

[sauer]

i see both sides o the coin here

 

but as has already been stated umpteen times ...you need bit o paper for most things these days

 

yes it doesnt necessarily mean your better than those who dont have it......but

 

again as stated it gives fc or whomever is selling stalking bit of piece o mind that yeah i dont know this guy BUT IF he be a novice per say for example that person SHOULD know safety basic practice , back drops etc.

 

im not surprised we have more paperwork in this day n ages considering we are dealing with firearms here.

 

as said like it or lump it its here to stay

 

and also said i totally agree with ,..... gives newcomers some good basics to work off of.

 

lest not forget its not compulsory (yet ) either

 

 

sauer

[menial 1]

I don't profess to being an expert stalker, I kill on average 40-50 fallow, a few reds, a few roe and a lot of muntjac each season. I don't lease any stalking, I get it in return for hard graft. Some of the members on here know me, and know my feelings regarding the way certain self appointed bodies within our sport would like to control our every move.

Most people I know are granted a deer cal. because of their previous experience with smaller calibres, not because they have a certificate.

Now that BASC, BDS, the DEER INITIATIVE have all got into bed together, theywill almost certainly recommend that it becomes mandatory to have a DMQ to have a deer cal.

Unfortunately my choice of representative in shooting sports, the NGO, seems to have aligned itself with the DEER INITIATIVE, probably for self presevation.

I shall be doing a course this year, not because I want to, but because as has been said, it will almost certainly be compulsory if certain organisations that make money from the courses get their way.

As for Dsc whingeing, aren't people entitled to express an opinion or are we just to cowtow to the whims of shooting organisations ( that supposedly represent the paying members interests) without a whimper.

I'm afraid the scales are tipping in favour of the gun control lobby and we're not doing anything to help ourselves by volunteering for things aren't yet a legal requirement.

Rolling over, it's the top British pastime I'm afraid.

Pete.

[flytie]

I don't profess to being an expert stalker, I kill on average 40-50 fallow, a few reds, a few roe and a lot of muntjac each season. I don't lease any stalking, I get it in return for hard graft. Some of the members on here know me, and know my feelings regarding the way certain self appointed bodies within our sport would like to control our every move.

Most people I know are granted a deer cal. because of their previous experience with smaller calibres, not because they have a certificate.

Now that BASC, BDS, the DEER INITIATIVE have all got into bed together, theywill almost certainly recommend that it becomes mandatory to have a DMQ to have a deer cal.

Unfortunately my choice of representative in shooting sports, the NGO, seems to have aligned itself with the DEER INITIATIVE, probably for self presevation.

I shall be doing a course this year, not because I want to, but because as has been said, it will almost certainly be compulsory if certain organisations that make money from the courses get their way.

As for Dsc whingeing, aren't people entitled to express an opinion or are we just to cowtow to the whims of shooting organisations ( that supposedly represent the paying members interests) without a whimper.

I'm afraid the scales are tipping in favour of the gun control lobby and we're not doing anything to help ourselves by volunteering for things aren't yet a legal requirement.

Rolling over, it's the top British pastime I'm afraid.

Pete.

 

First point, West Mercia constabulary openly admit that they look more favourably on applications from people who have done the DSC.

 

2/ The Government are the ones who have brought in the restrictions imposed by the new food hygene laws to be in line with the EU. This is why when you get your certificate you will find you are an "EU Trained Hunter (Large Game). You now need this for food that you produce to enter the food chain legally, so if you do not have it you are not supposed to even give the venison away, it must be for personal consumption only.

 

3/ The BDS and BASC have been vigerously campaigning with the Gov't for the schemes to be voluntary not compulsory. Which you would know if you asked them.

 

4/ No I still think whingeing is the national pastime. If you don't like the way things are try and change them! I email my MP about all sorts of cr*p that gets me mad, and just occasionally the Government minister who has peed me off has to reply to me! Little me, making them accountable, I like that. When the Lead shot ban came in I was incensed that the BASC gave way, and told them so. I even asked to see all the research used to justify their position. Dr John Harradine of BASC was most helpful. But I later found out that a blanket ban on lead shot was the other alternative given to them by the Gov't. Not much of a choice was it!

 

So all in all I would rather fight to change something than whinge, which makes me unusual, seemingly. No wonder the Aussies call us "whingeing Poms". I will try and change what I can, when I can. What is your MP's position on all this shooting related stuff? Do you look at their voting record on the things that bug you? Do you b*llock them if they get it wrong? If not why not? If stuff happens that you don't like, you only have yourself (or the Government) to blame.

 

Man the barracades, it's revolution time, I wish.

 

ft

[sauer]

just because a course is vlountary doesnt mean automatically im not doing it.

 

i agree with comment about deer cals easier to obtain after having smaller rimfire etc experience on a fac

 

but

 

look at other side o the coin, i class myself as a relative novice compared to many on here for example ...but you still get minority o guys obtaining fac and no bloody idea how dangerous they can potentially be and firing em off willy nilly like a they think its same as say an air rifle. ( should always be safe with air rifles too )

 

its not compulsory no and i hope it stays that way but i certainly thinkm its a good idea to instill some safety awareness and basics

 

 

sauer

[menial 1]

On the meat/hygiene rule, it states you can sell/make gifts of a small number of deer without a certificate, how many is a small number?

I tend not to have the time to be a political animal and ask the why's and wherefores of every ruling regarding all things shooting, I tend to struggle to make time sometimes to log in to this forum.

I'm afraid work doesn't allow me the time to change the world via enquiries to the various shooting organisations or the government or lobbying MP's that couldn't give a toss about shooting sports.

Flytie, you seem to think you have some idea on how to go about making changes that would benefit the shooting fraternity, but unlike BASC and the BDS try asking them what they perhaps think before agreeing to anything the government suggests.

I sometimes wonder if it's worth posting an opinion without wondering if you'll be labelled a whinger because you don't seem to conform to the ideals of the majority and be deemed to be trolling rather than giving what one considers to be their honest opinion based on their findings and experiences over an extended period of being involved in fieldsports and shooting, in my case over 40yrs. It doesn't make me the font of all knowledge but it does entitle me to my own opinions which I will continue to have or shall I need to attend a course for these as well.

Pete.

[flytie]

Menial, I only know what your MP will openly tell you if you bother to speak to him. They are only open to persuasion by public pressure, and how do they measure that? By the amount of correspondence, electronic or snail mail that they recieve on any given subject.

 

If you sit back and coast, do not let them know how you feel, how will they know? They are not psychic, they only know if you are peed off if you tell them. I do.

 

If all we shooting men joined together and voted en-masse, like they do in the USA (the NRA) we might be pleasantly surprised with the results.

 

I was brought up not to whinge but to "get on with it". By all means play for sympathy if that floats your boat, but I was told it's found in the dictionary between sh*t and syphillis. If you hate the BDS or BASC don't join, easy! I think we would be poorer without them. It is after all a free (ish) country.

 

I bored with this now, bye

 

ft