New dawg

Elwood · September 14, 2008

This is Indy, she's a four year old Belgium Shepherd that has been with the Thames valley police force for two years. She isn't a police dog as such other than the title, but she has been trained as a Shutzhund which incorporates disciplines that the police use, tracking and chasing mainly, she was selected as a brood bitch due to her qualities, and originates from Holland ( Yes I know a Belgium Shepherd from Holland in the UK!!!).

I will be using her as a tracking dog, I intend to use her for tracking blood trails and following up wounded deer (hopefully not mine) she will also double up as a security dog at my kennels and of course out and about in the dark winter evenings.

I got the idea of using a Shepherd as a deer dog after watching my other German Shepherd work, as some of you will know how bloody difficult it can be finding a shot fox in long stubble. On the ones I can't find I always go back the next day to find them, and I often have Elly with me. I noticed that she started scenting so I let her find the body. Step two was to remove the fox as soon as it had been shot that evening and let her pick up the blood trial, unfortunately she wouldn't give any kind of indication that she had found the trail, but by closely watching her I manged to spot subtle changes in her manner, which eight of ten cases proved to be right.

I hope to get Indy to bark or sit as soon as she scents blood and then to follow the trail, she hasn't had any training in two years, I have had her five days now and she has made remarkable progress so I don't think it will be two difficult to teach her to track blood.

Elly

Indy

kip270 · September 14, 2008

She's a lovely looking dog, keep us updated how she gets on.

col48 · September 14, 2008

wile i was in Ireland shooting sika, we got talking to a crowt, and he used G/S exclusively and said they where the best dogs he had ever used.and they have no problems bringing down the wounded.

ATB

Colin

JC275 · September 17, 2008

Nice looking dog Ian and great photos too. I have often thought about using a GSD as a deer dog as my Mother has always had them as pets and i've often been amazed at their intelegence, I can see know reason why they wouldn't make great deer dogs. I use a GSP at the moment but I am thinking about getting another dog to start bringing on as my present one is eight years old. I am leaning towards getting a Wire-haired Vizla but we will see. JC

Elwood · September 17, 2008

JC, I think one of the main reasons for not using a German Shepherd is supposedly that they will not hold a wounded deer down, or that's what I'm told, I think Indy just might from what I have seen of her so far. One thing that really struck me was the sheer power she has, if she pulls and I'm off balance it takes me all of five yards to stop her.

I going to be using her just for the initial find straight after a shot just to determine if there was a miss or a hit. I really don't think I will have any trouble at all using her for that and the fact that she tracks anyway makes my job all the more easier.

Their intelligence is immense, Indy has been trained for two years, after seven days she walks to heel, sits, downs, stays, and speaks on command, such a joy after training springers labs and cocker's!

One of the neighboring keepers came round for a chat a few days ago and he always takes the piss out Elly as she's a gentle giant (Olderhill), he didn't notice the subtle difference between Indy and Elly, a mistake he will not make again, how I laughed

JC275 · September 18, 2008

I think that you might find, if you are unfortunate to be in the situation, that if the dog gets hold of an injured deer and it struggles she may or may not let it go, if she lets go and the deer gets up and runs again then I bet she would be on it again like a shot. I wouldn't be supprised if a dog the size of a GSD would kill a deer upto the size of a fallow rather than let it get away if you are not quickly on the scene to take control and this is no bad thing as long as she doesn't get injured. I am always very reluctant to work my GSP without her long tracking lead, not because I don't trust her but because I like to be in control and, important though it is to find a lost deer and end its suffering, it is not worth your dog getting run over on a road or killed by an antler because she is too eager to please and doesn't know when to back off. The easiest mistake that you can make with dogs that are very inteligent is to move too fast, in some ways it is easier to train a dog that is not quite so sharp because you have to cover the basics properly. Keep us posted how you get on with your dog. JC

Elwood · December 8, 2008

A first update.

Well it's been a very interesting and sometimes turbulent few months with Indy so far, but progress has been made and the more I persevere with her the gains become bigger week on week.

Initial progress was quite good with basic discipline being my major focus, walking to heel was tricky but slowly we are getting there, sit, stay and down were all relatively easy, what you have to remember is that Indy was bred and trained in Holland, and of course has been trained with Dutch language commands!

It didn't take me long to realize she likes to chase, and she doesn't care what you are, if you run, then you're fair game. This of course was a major concern for me, but after alot of time and effort I would trust her around livestock unless it's sheep. Once she see's sheep she slips instantly into wolf mode, I have pretty much resigned myself that I will not be able to train her out of this, and will Always have to be vigilant.

I have no doubt that when the that which promotes growth and vigour hits the fan Indy will be standing in front of me and not behind me, I have a few willing antagonists (beaters) who are willing to testify to this, the good thing with her is that she's able to predict who's friend and who's foe, run ,shout or just move your arms to fast and her bad guy radar locks on.

I'd love to say that she has settled in with my other dogs, but she hasn't, she's nailed my older bigger Shepherd once and my yellow lab twice, but she didn't get it all her own way, the lab bit her on the foot and broke her metatarsal (David Backham style) she still has a slight limp but is getting better by the day.

Now I expect a few of you are wondering why I'm persisting with this dog, I have considered this myself on more than a few occasions, I could easily just give her back to the Thames valley Police, but this week I tried her on blood for the first time, all I can say is Wow, this is what she's good at.

I started off with three flower pots and placed them in the garden about five yards apart, underneath the third one I had placed a small pot of fresh deer's blood. I walked her to heel on a leash and walked her past the first two pots, she showed interest in them but I dissuaded her, when we got to the third one I let her go right up to it and then praised her before giving her her ball.

I'm now using bits of one dowel dipped in the deer's blood and then I bury them just under the surface in my training field, as of yet she has found them all, the next stage is getting her to signal finding the blood, either by barking or sitting, and once that is done we will progress in laying down trails and following them.

I have also been very lucky and managed to find a chap who ran the dog section at a local military base, after Xmas I'm looking forward into to tapping into his knowledge and hope to have Indy fully trained by this time next year.

Elwood · December 18, 2008

Well great progress has been made in a very short space of time. I picked up a tip from another website and thought I would try it out.

As I have said above Indy being a trained schutzhund could already track and has been taught to track human scent, this made it quite easy for her to locate blood spots that I had laid, as she just followed my scent. I can see why Thames Valley took her on as a brood bitch now, her nose rarely leaves the ground and by christ can she track.

Anyway the tip I picked up was to use a deer leg and create a scent trial with it, I couldn't do this on foot as Indy would just follow both trails, so I tied it on the back of the Landrover.

The first attempt was a very short 50 yard straight trail, leaving the leg for her at the end, she got on the scent straight away and went straight to the leg, against the wind! Next one I made harder, I laid a 200 yard trail and curved it toward the end, I took Indy out the Landrover and told her to "find" at a gentle jogging pace she led me straight to it. I repeated the same trail on different ground today and put a few kinks in it, sure enough she followed every bend but over ran the leg, so I gently encouraged her back on to it.

These we all done on short grass, so I guess the next step will be to try her tracking on longer grass or rough vegetation.