Advice please.....................

[Guest martin]

Hi all,the mentor on my FAC has written to the police to have the supervisory restriction removed,and,they have said that as long as he says I am competent then they will remove it.But,I want to have an open ticket when they remove it,so,has anyone got any tips on what I should put in the letter to the FEO to try and get it opened up.Any help will be very appreciated...........Martin.

[auquhollie]

Martin,

Do your level one and send them a copy of your certificate you get. Part of the DSC level 1 is a section on Risk Assesment. They were happy to remove the condition on my FAC when they realised ide done Risk assesment training.

 

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[Guest martin]

Martin,

Do your level one and send them a copy of your certificate you get. Part of the DSC level 1 is a section on Risk Assesment. They were happy to remove the condition on my FAC when they realised ide done Risk assesment training.

 

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Thanks mate,but,I do risk assessments as part of my job of working with offenders out in the community,which is one thing that I would be putting in the letter to the FEO......Martin.

[eldon]

Martin I think what ads was trying to say was that YOU had been risk assessed as the DSC1 has a safety element in it.

Your problem is how can you demonstrate to the police that you are safe.

 

If you are interested in deer then the DSC1 is a good suggestion.

 

Other points for you to consider;

For an open ticket the onus for safe usage is yours, this will be based on your experience of shooting. Create a resume of your experience so far.

Have you shot on a variety of land? If yes state how these differ and what items you have taken into account.

Can you show knowledge with regard to public safety and possibly using your work show a responsible attitude.

 

If all else fails, don't forget you have the ticket and just let some time pass, be patient. I was once in the same boat, don't ask for what you can't back up with experience.

Get rid of the supervisory bit and enjoy.

An Open ticket will come.

[Guest martin]

I do understand exactly what both of you have said,and,I appreciate your input,but,am I not right in assuming that as the police remove my supervisory condition,they do so because my supervisor has deemed me to be competent.And,as such I believe that they should also remove all other conditions,and,let me have an open ticket.I get offers of stalking from different people in different parts of the country,and,it would make it very hard if not impossible to take up these offers.....wouldn't it?............................Martin.

[Orka Akinse]

The problem started when you agreed to have a mentor.

 

As the law stands it is the police WHO must prove you are unfit to hold a firearm, it has nothing to do with him proving he is safe.

 

This is another backdoor attempt by the police over stepping their authority and applying rules and conditions and not the law to suit themselves.

 

Here is the best advice you will get. Pay the membership fee to BASC and get onto their firearms department they will help you sort it out.

[eldon]

Not disputing what you said OA and agree with your advice but.........

 

dont you think it is asking alot to go from the current (whether correct or not) supervised position straight to an open ticket?

 

I think I would be happy in this situation just to get rid of the supervisory condition and at next variation or whatever tackle the open issue.

[dogfox]

Ya know,

After a year and a half of reading on this board of all the hoops you guys gotta jump thru to be able to own/shoot firearms....

Its still as clear as mud.

 

All jokes and kidding around aside...I really feel for you guys.

 

Now, My question has several parts...and I am not asking this to be a smart ass,or try and stir up trouble.

I am just trying to get a little better understanding as I have read and learned quite abit with my time here.

And an awful lot seems to be under interpratation of the Local Police Chief to apply any or whatever rules

they see fit....and many of the rules are not law,but merely a suggestion from BASC.

 

My Question(s)...... Who or What body determines that the "Mentor" is qualified to be a mentor?

Just what exactly are the qualifications needed to be a mentor?

What is an appropriate length of time as a student and Who or What body determines this besides the Mentor?

Is there an OFFICIALLY recognised/registered school/class/course one can take to become a Mentor?

 

As I understand it if any deer hunter or varmint hunter is willing to take ya out a few times a week/month or ? and willing to write a letter for ya...yer good to go....But that letter must be very carefully worded or in the event of an incident (Heaven Forbid) the punishment for the student could/will be extended to the mentor as well.

 

As it has been stated ealier and many times at that by aquiring a DSC1 is one way to satisfy any requirements.

 

But what about any acomplishments or trophies won at a range competition as well as a letter recognizing the trophy or comp placing from the Range Officer or Club Prez ?

 

Clearly punchin paper isnt quite the same as droppin critters....And I well know not all hunters have easy access to a range,but an awful lot of the same common sense safety rules apply to both.

 

And to quote my Boss..."Safety is No Accident."

 

308Panther

 

The B.A.S.C are no good they are only intrested in deer stalking and game shooting. We need a organization like the NRA in the USA that will fight every body corner. It does not matter if you shoot vermin or large game.As long as you are safe that all that matters. Doing a test does not make you safe.

 

Dogfox

[Guest martin]

The problem started when you agreed to have a mentor.

 

As the law stands it is the police WHO must prove you are unfit to hold a firearm, it has nothing to do with him proving he is safe.

 

This is another backdoor attempt by the police over stepping their authority and applying rules and conditions and not the law to suit themselves.

 

Here is the best advice you will get. Pay the membership fee to BASC and get onto their firearms department they will help you sort it out.

 

Hi 'OA', I was a member of the BASC ,but,after speaking to one of their bods at the WestCountryGamefair I soon changed my mind,and,when my renewal came up,I changed over to the SACS.I was told in no uncertain terms,that the BASC stance on mentors and opening tickets was exactly that of the Avon & Somerset Police Force,and,that they would back the police in their quest to make all new centre fire owners have a mentor,and,that includes .22 centrefire rifles as well.And,that is exactly what A&S are now doing.I have sent a request for advice to the SACS,and,am awaiting their reply.......................Martin.

[Guest martin]

Ya know,

After a year and a half of reading on this board of all the hoops you guys gotta jump thru to be able to own/shoot firearms....

Its still as clear as mud.

 

All jokes and kidding around aside...I really feel for you guys.

 

Now, My question has several parts...and I am not asking this to be a smart ass,or try and stir up trouble.

I am just trying to get a little better understanding as I have read and learned quite abit with my time here.

And an awful lot seems to be under interpratation of the Local Police Chief to apply any or whatever rules

they see fit....and many of the rules are not law,but merely a suggestion from BASC.

 

My Question(s)...... Who or What body determines that the "Mentor" is qualified to be a mentor?

Just what exactly are the qualifications needed to be a mentor?

What is an appropriate length of time as a student and Who or What body determines this besides the Mentor?

Is there an OFFICIALLY recognised/registered school/class/course one can take to become a Mentor?

 

As I understand it if any deer hunter or varmint hunter is willing to take ya out a few times a week/month or ? and willing to write a letter for ya...yer good to go....But that letter must be very carefully worded or in the event of an incident (Heaven Forbid) the punishment for the student could/will be extended to the mentor as well.

 

As it has been stated ealier and many times at that by aquiring a DSC1 is one way to satisfy any requirements.

 

But what about any acomplishments or trophies won at a range competition as well as a letter recognizing the trophy or comp placing from the Range Officer or Club Prez ?

 

Clearly punchin paper isnt quite the same as droppin critters....And I well know not all hunters have easy access to a range,but an awful lot of the same common sense safety rules apply to both.

 

And to quote my Boss..."Safety is No Accident."

 

308Panther

 

It appears that if you are the owner of an open ticket then you are deemed safe to become a 'Mentor',and,as far as range work is concerned,I have just spoken to the FLO and he said that any and all experience will help towards taking the restriction off before the '3 YEAR'term that he says is the law.I will wait for a reply from SACS before I decide what to do,but,I think that I will probably have to just grin and bear it,and,in the meantime I will be making up a portfolio of evidence to present to the FLO in due course....................Martin.

[Orka Akinse]

Martin

 

I feel for you but lets get a few facts and law's correct.

 

1. There is no legal requirement to have a mentor.

 

2. There is also no such thing or terminology as an "open" ticket in law. It can be equally argued that if a police force put restrictions on a firearms certificate then should they be issueing the thing in the first place? My emphasis here is that whilst we accept "conditions" it does not give the police the legal authority to put them on. Now before we all start getting its the principle I'm trying to get across here. That is to say the firearm certificate is "open" before the police all get hard ons and start slapping conditions on all over the place cos they think they 're makin the world a safer place.

 

The FLO who said you have to wait three years to get an open ticket "its the law" has been snorting too much pink fairy dust again. Write back and ask him to tell you where the law says that you have to wait three years and who the deciding officer was who has made that decision that affects you. I can tell you where it originated but lets see what we get back first. I would also direct you to the HOGTFL but remember it aint the law.

 

3. I will speak with the BASC Firearms department tomorrow and get them to confirm or deny what you were told....

 

I was told in no uncertain terms,that the BASC stance on mentors and opening tickets was exactly that of the Avon & Somerset Police Force,and,that they would back the police in their quest to make all new centre fire owners have a mentor,and,that includes .22 centrefire rifles as well.And,that is exactly what A&S are now doing.

 

If you know the name of who you talked to that would be a great help, PM it me would ya?

[Guest martin]

Martin

 

I feel for you but lets get a few facts and law's correct.

 

1. There is no legal requirement to have a mentor.

 

2. There is also no such thing or terminology as an "open" ticket in law. It can be equally argued that if a police force put restrictions on a firearms certificate then should they be issueing the thing in the first place? My emphasis here is that whilst we accept "conditions" it does not give the police the legal authority to put them on. Now before we all start getting its the principle I'm trying to get across here. That is to say the firearm certificate is "open" before the police all get hard ons and start slapping conditions on all over the place cos they think they 're makin the world a safer place.

 

The FLO who said you have to wait three years to get an open ticket "its the law" has been snorting too much pink fairy dust again. Write back and ask him to tell you where the law says that you have to wait three years and who the deciding officer was who has made that decision that affects you. I can tell you where it originated but lets see what we get back first. I would also direct you to the HOGTFL but remember it aint the law.

 

3. I will speak with the BASC Firearms department tomorrow and get them to confirm or deny what you were told....

 

I was told in no uncertain terms,that the BASC stance on mentors and opening tickets was exactly that of the Avon & Somerset Police Force,and,that they would back the police in their quest to make all new centre fire owners have a mentor,and,that includes .22 centrefire rifles as well.And,that is exactly what A&S are now doing.

 

If you know the name of who you talked to that would be a great help, PM it me would ya?

 

Unfortunately I don't know his name,but,at the time I was there he was the only person on the stand..........Martin.