The wildcat moderator

[Guest Doc]

If you work out the cost of machines, materials , Workshop, Workshop costs and labour advertising 2 profit margins Trade and Retail along with vat you would not even look at spending the investment.

Remember the Retail price minus vat is £183

Try doing some costing your self and to help we have just purchased a 3rd cnc at a price of £50,000 plus vat

 

Andy

 

Please lets not try to make a bigger deal of this than it is. Machinery costs are tax deductable as are rent and workshop costs, as are direct and sub contract labour costs, along with advertising. VAT on machinery, materials, sub contract labour etc etc is claimed back. Unless of course you believe that you should get you tax deductible cost back twice once from HMRC and once from the consumer Also what has the retail profit margin to do with anything, as your selling direct are you not? If you are not why should we be forced to pay a middle mans mark up just for the pleasure of having him place your mod in a plastic carrier bag for us to take home. You new CNC machine should make a huge dent in you tax bill for the next couple of years seeing as you can write off the first 20K next year.

 

So let cut to the chase. What is the true cost of manufacture and distribution?

 

Doe

[col48]

Andy

 

Please lets not try to make a bigger deal of this than it is. Machinery costs are tax deductable as are rent and workshop costs, as are direct and sub contract labour costs, along with advertising. VAT on machinery, materials, sub contract labour etc etc is claimed back. Unless of course you believe that you should get you tax deductible cost back twice once from HMRC and once from the consumer Also what has the retail profit margin to do with anything, as your selling direct are you not? If you are not why should we be forced to pay a middle mans mark up just for the pleasure of having him place your mod in a plastic carrier bag for us to take home. You new CNC machine should make a huge dent in you tax bill for the next couple of years seeing as you can write off the first 20K next year.

 

So let cut to the chase. What is the true cost of manufacture and distribution?

 

Doe

 

doc

 

i repeat

 

hi foxy

nice to have you on board.

now me not coming from an engineering back ground, and all so having bin to your factory and seen first had the amount of work that goes in to one of your mods, i will hazered a guess that there is more machine work and different operations in one of your mods than a A-TEC and stealth both put together.

so i ask you what is expensive.

but this mod is not aimed at taking the crown of the quietest,or the lightest, its just a well made well designed and well manufactured mod.

just take it for what it is, and i think those of you who have not seen one will be surprised.

 

and i don't believe you have the right to ask anyone the brake down of there costings,

if you think you can do it cheaper, lets see it done,its all well and good putting someone down,especially if you have not got the balls to do it yourself.so come on lets see the next generation of mods that get produced for the price of a pack of fags

please

 

ATB

Colin

[Guest Doc]

Colin

 

How do you know its a "well made well designed and well manufactured mod" Not wishing to appear pedantic but as you have already said you're " not coming from an engineering back ground". Neither am I so you challenge to produce the next generation of mods it rather meaningless. Perhaps someone who has an engineering background could do just that who knows.What is not meaningless is a true justification of the sales price, which we have yet to be provided with. If Andy doesn't want to supply that information that is his prerogative, and I would fully understand. But its up to him to say yes or no not you or Funky.

[Zig]

Andy

 

Please lets not try to make a bigger deal of this than it is. Machinery costs are tax deductable as are rent and workshop costs, as are direct and sub contract labour costs, along with advertising. VAT on machinery, materials, sub contract labour etc etc is claimed back. Unless of course you believe that you should get you tax deductible cost back twice once from HMRC and once from the consumer Also what has the retail profit margin to do with anything, as your selling direct are you not? If you are not why should we be forced to pay a middle mans mark up just for the pleasure of having him place your mod in a plastic carrier bag for us to take home. You new CNC machine should make a huge dent in you tax bill for the next couple of years seeing as you can write off the first 20K next year.

 

So let cut to the chase. What is the true cost of manufacture and distribution?

 

Doe

 

Sounds easy Doe

Nothing is tax deductable untill you make a profit.

All i am saying is

WE are here we make a good product at sensible price.

Please give me a fair judgment of my product before you comment it is too expensive.

So many people have oppinions of product having never seen them , This goes for rifle cals as well (.17 rem is sh////// fowelsup barrels ect) Have they shot or used one? Usually NO.

If it is that easy please be my guest Take me on.

Produce a product to beat mine at a better price.

Risk your own money and put up garentees on your house to get the funds to purchase equipment.

Sign a lease on a factory unit commiting you to pay for x £s for no of years.

Easy to do. Are you willing to do this.

We all do our jobs for a reward in £s

I am a generous man.

If you cannot afford a full bore mod please say so I will give you one Doe.

We have a few to give away to charity cases and prizes this year.

But having recieve the mod please be fair in any judgment of any buissness.

We just want to earn a good living and sleep at night .

I am sorry if you take this as an insult but either contact me for the mod or be resonable and shut the F///// up

[col48]

Colin

 

How do you know its a "well made well designed and well manufactured mod" Not wishing to appear pedantic but as you have already said you're " not coming from an engineering back ground". Neither am I so you challenge to produce the next generation of mods it rather meaningless. Perhaps someone who has an engineering background could do just that who knows.What is not meaningless is a true justification of the sales price, which we have yet to be provided with. If Andy doesn't want to supply that information that is his prerogative, and I would fully understand. But its up to him to say yes or no not you or Funky.

 

yes you are correct i do not come from a engineering back ground, but i do have friends in the trade,

one of them was shown the mod in question,and asked his opinion of the quality of work done.

oh he is a engineering manager,of a very very large company.

well what did he say.

ill take this one please, and took it there and then, and he thought it was reasonably priced.

 

now please tell me what gives you the right to say something is vastly over priced?????

as by your own admission you no nothing about what goes in to the making of mod,let aloan a modular one like this.

now i ask again

the A-tec and stealth have far less machining operations and is still £100 more expensive, so which is over priced?????

y is it no one can say anything about mods on here???

as for what gives me an opinion on what makes a mod well built or not, i have used most if not all mods on the market,

i have now been asked to do 3 reviews of mods,and there is still more to come, on this mod and others,i all ways give a fair and unbiased report of my findings,unlike the magazines that don't want to up set there advertisers.

so nothing really,its just people keep asking me to have a look at there mods,and all they ask is that i give it a fair review.

strange how 2 or 3 people have called this mod and have not even seen it,

as i think it was only released in June last year,

I'm sure foxy will correct me if I'm wrong.

 

ATB

Colin

 

PS your posts remind me of someone,

[Guest Doc]

Andy

 

Both you and I know you deduct your operating costs prior to determining whether you have made a profit or not. Then and only then do you pay your tax.

I have no doubts about the quality of your product, But until I know the true manufacturing and distribution cost how could I realistically give an opinion as to whether your product offered true value for money.

 

You are indeed a generous man. I am however neither a charity case or in need of a prize. So I shall decline your offer of a C/F mod in the same manner in which it was offered. Thanks but no thanks. I am very reasonable though and shall contact you and I am happy to pay a fair price if your product is as good as you claim.

 

Regards

 

Doc

[ejg223]

Foxy,

welcome to the forum.

 

What happens if someone sells a similar mod for 100 Sterl? Are you going to pack up?

 

Look at the car industry they learnt to cope with price pressure. Of course once quantities go up.

As you say, with a handfull of moderators produced the price is completely ok at the moment.

But Foxy you said you bought a new CNC machine, when investing in equipment, it is done

for one reason only and that is to reduce costs or? Why would you choose that machine otherwise?

 

At the moment I'm seeing one mod producer after the other showing up, so I presume the

prices are very attractive for a manufacturer. If one would break the ice and go in at a low

price for quality level it would take the wind out of the sails of many others and one would

have a long running business.

With the existing prices we will have many more moderator reviews on here.

 

edi

[Zig]

Foxy,

welcome to the forum.

 

What happens if someone sells a similar mod for 100 Sterl? Are you going to pack up?

 

Look at the car industry they learnt to cope with price pressure. Of course once quantities go up.

As you say, with a handfull of moderators produced the price is completely ok at the moment.

But Foxy you said you bought a new CNC machine, when investing in equipment, it is done

for one reason only and that is to reduce costs or? Why would you choose that machine otherwise?

 

At the moment I'm seeing one mod producer after the other showing up, so I presume the

prices are very attractive for a manufacturer. If one would break the ice and go in at a low

price for quality level it would take the wind out of the sails of many others and one would

have a long running business.

With the existing prices we will have many more moderator reviews on here.

 

edi

Hi thanks for your reply.

Obviously i am not going to give my costs out but i will say it is a long view i take of my buisness.

Risky i know the goverment could put a stop any time if they so desired.

If some one can produce a mod like mine and sell retail for £100 sterling GOOD luck.

As for uk prices being high look at moderator prices in The USA.

This is a markert we are looking at now.

I have looked at prices from China but am not happy with my findings .

It apperas now that they are on the out sourcing else ware machining to reduce costs and quality is a main problem.

As i previously stated our machinery is at 75% capacity working a 50hour week. the other25% is not going to reduce prices.

Take a Predator 8 to a machine shop and ask for a price to make 1000 off see what you come up with. I would be intrested.

I intend to be here producing moderators and other paarts for the shooting industry for a considerable time to come.

We have new development in a .17HMR mod very soon.

May be this will take up the other 25% of our capacity.

Then we have to purchase another machine.Larger premises ect.

Hope other mods come along , competition is a good healthy thing . It keeps development on the move.

We are looking to the future now.

If any person wants to try a mod they are welcome to come and test shoot one and viev the quality.

Andrew

[ejg223]

Hi thanks for your reply.

Obviously i am not going to give my costs out but i will say it is a long view i take of my buisness.

Risky i know the goverment could put a stop any time if they so desired.

If some one can produce a mod like mine and sell retail for £100 sterling GOOD luck.

As for uk prices being high look at moderator prices in The USA.

This is a markert we are looking at now.

I have looked at prices from China but am not happy with my findings .

It apperas now that they are on the out sourcing else ware machining to reduce costs and quality is a main problem.

As i previously stated our machinery is at 75% capacity working a 50hour week. the other25% is not going to reduce prices.

Take a Predator 8 to a machine shop and ask for a price to make 1000 off see what you come up with. I would be intrested.

I intend to be here producing moderators and other paarts for the shooting industry for a considerable time to come.

We have new development in a .17HMR mod very soon.

May be this will take up the other 25% of our capacity.

Then we have to purchase another machine.Larger premises ect.

Hope other mods come along , competition is a good healthy thing . It keeps development on the move.

We are looking to the future now.

If any person wants to try a mod they are welcome to come and test shoot one and viev the quality.

Andrew

 

Andrew,

will you be at the IWA?

I wish you all the best with your venture.

Important is as always to grow closer to what the market wants and

to be able to cope with market pressures. New technologies pop up

every now and then, such as injection moulding of stainless steel which

has replaced many cnc parts also in the gun/ rifle manufacturing.

 

edi

[Bambi-basher]

As some of you know I am friends with somebody else involved with moderators, so here is my view and but put your knifes away.

 

There seems to be a bit of talk of how increased product volume will lower cost to a extent this is true, but only to a point, yes you get a big reduction in cost between 10 and 100 units but that is far far smaller between 1,000 and 10,000 units. The cost of raw materials is rising at the minute to add to the problem. So I think the dream of really cheap moderators is just that. Any way why should a engineer sell his wares cheaply, you don’t ask this of a lawyer or doctor, a man you works for nothing will never be out of work, a fair days pay for a fair days work and I would say that the P8 gives that

 

Andy is making a product which I think is fairly priced, I know working for my hourly rate I could not make one for that if I tried. He seems committed to his product and that is to be commended and I see he has more than once offered his products to people FOC which show that he has faith in them, hats off to the bloke.

 

I do think there are too many moderators on the market at the minute and none of them yet tick all the boxes for me. Given time the cream will rise to the top and we may have just a hand full of good ones to choose from, just my opinion.

 

Best rgds

 

B-b